Fissures in the middle
The most convenient understanding of the phenomenon of Pakistani extremists that one hears being echoed from TV studios and their favourite ‘guests’ suggests that young Pakistanis turning into religious fanatics has something to do with illiteracy and unemployment.
Though not entirely incorrect, this notion, however, is a lazy explanation.
It fails to explain the emergence of young religious extremists such as Omar Shaikh, Shahzad Tanveer and Hasib Hussain, and Faisal Shahzad. Each one of these young men came from educated, middle-class families.
Saying they were products of the western societies that they were raised in is a weak retort.
This attitude simply refuses to seriously address the issue of educated, young Pakistanis falling for an extremely myopic and nihilistic brand of the faith — something that was once explained as a vocation only of the illiterate and the financially desperate.
Omar Saeed Sheikh, the British Pakistani who studied at prestigious educational institutions like Aitchison in Lahore and than at UK’s London School of Economics was involved in the kidnapping and beheading of US journalist, Daniel Pearl, by radical Islamist organisations in Pakistan.
There has been an alarming rise in the number of young, educated middle-class Pakistanis (here and abroad), embracing the most reactionary and anarchic strains of the faith, believing it to be a justified and logical portrayal of ‘true’ Islam.
During a recent seminar, TV anchor and journalist, Talat Hussain, pointed out a very interesting finding. During his visits to the United Kingdom, Hussain went around talking to various Pakistani families settled in the UK.
He was shocked to find that in spite of these families having access to a wide spectrum of education, employment and health facilities provided by the UK’s welfare system, a majority of young third generation British Pakistanis were drop-outs, involved in gang-related criminal activities, or had allowed themselves to be ghettoised within large pockets of Pakistani communities there.
In the last two decades or so, these communities have come under the influence of various religious outfits who exercise control over how UK citizens of Pakistani origin (especially the young) should think and behave.
Many of the more radical clerics and leaders of these outfits and thinking are UK citizens surviving on hand-outs that UK’s welfare system doles out to its unemployed citizens.
And yet, one of the main planks of these men includes indoctrinating Pakistani-British youth to view the British society as being ‘decadent’, ‘immoral’ and ‘working against the interests of the Muslims.’
This has consequently made a number of British-Pakistanis to limit their interaction with the British society in general in spite of the fact that most of them continue to accept the benefits offered by the British system.
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While actors like the 7/7 bombers in London and Faisal Shahzad are an obvious embarrassment to Pakistan and to the Pakistani communities in the West, so are the growing number of rabid, tech-savvy young people floating around various social media sites mouthing the most reactionary ideas about Islam and politics.
There are websites out there glorifying some rather disturbed men and the most twisted conspiracy theories. And many of these sites are owned, run and frequented by Pakistanis who work and are comfortably settled in western countries.
Just as the sudden rise of certain crackpots (via TV) in Pakistan was keenly followed and supported by a chunk of young, urban middle-class Pakistanis, various cranks are happily catering to the already confused religious and ideological bearings of Muslim Pakistanis living abroad.
British-Pakistanis rallying for Shariah laws in the UK. Many such young men are directly influenced by organisations like the Hizbut Tahrir – an Islamist outfit that was recently involved in trying to inspire an Islamist military coup in Pakistan. It is ironic to note that Tahrir, though banned in Pakistan, continues to function as a legitimate organisation in the UK.
Much has already been written about Islamic evangelists who cleverly represent (and glorify) the increasingly chauvinistic mindset of the current generation of young urbanites.
A recent book on Farhat Hashmi’s organisation, Al-Huda, (written by a Pakistani woman academic), accuses her of spreading hatred against Christians, Hindus and Jews among Pakistani women living in Canada.
In the wake of the Faisal Shahzad episode in New York last year, the Muslim Canadian Congress (MCC) – a group of liberal Muslims living in Canada – accused American Islamic organisations of refusing to distance themselves from the doctrine of armed jihad.
The MCC goes on to state that many young Pakistanis living in the United States and Canada regard Pakistan as a safe haven for their preparation and training for waging wars against the West.
Organisations like the MCC have also come down hard on outfits such as Al-Huda, ridiculing their claim that they are on a mission to convert westerners to Islam.
A cleric sits beside Farhat Hashmi (left) lecturing young Pakistani women at one of Al-Huda’s teaching centres in Canada.
Nevertheless, even in liberal countries like the US, UK and Canada, organisations like the MCC are coming under direct attack and threats from their more myopic contemporaries who, it seems, are free to peddle away hatred and confusion to Muslims living abroad.
Not surprisingly, it is now not just right-wing, non-Muslim lobbies in the West who are asking their governments to revisit their policies based on the egalitarian and pluralistic notions of ‘multiculturalism,’ but even organisations like the MCC and others representing liberal Muslim Pakistanis living abroad are demanding the same.
They claim that radical Muslims are misusing these policies and/or only producing intolerant young Muslims thanks to the tolerant attitude of Western governments.
The Muslim Canadian Congress (MCC) protesting in Toronto against the growing influence of radical Islamist groups in Muslim schools in Canada.
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But, of course, the situation is more alarming in Pakistan.
Political Islam – a mid-20th century philosophy that advocates the creation of a theocratic government and state through the ‘Islamisation’ of society –was once the vocation of conservative scholars and established political parties such as Abul Ala Mauddudi and Jamat-i-Islami (in Pakistan).
However, ever since the late 1980s it has rapidly disintegrated into becoming a bare but populist entity with two prominent strains.
One strain has striped off this philosophy’s more scholarly aspects and left only its violent jihadist facets intact. This strain can now be found in the barbaric ways of extremist organisations like the Taliban and many of Pakistan’s once state-approved sectarian outfits.
The other strain has been working to turn Political Islam into a populist set of easy-to-digest ideas through which elections can be fought or the military-establishment be infiltrated and used as a patron.
JI tried flaunting the populist aspects of Political Islam during the 1977 and 1993 elections, but failed.
Nawaz Sharif’s PML-N did so throughout the 1990s and somewhat did succeed – but only with the help of the military-establishment and before he was chucked out in a military coup in 1999.
Political Islam’s historical drubbing in elections in Pakistan has increasingly made this philosophy the prerogative of certain powerful sections of Pakistan’s military and its many mouthpieces in the popular Urdu media and in so-called Islamic evangelist movements.
Its most recent advocate is cricketer-turned-politician Imran Khan.
Though, quite like Imran, most of his followers’ lifestyles too are rather ‘westernised,’ these are no liberals believing in concepts like democratic pluralism or in the importance of tolerating and promoting religious, sectarian and ethnic diversity.
By the looks of it, they see democracy to be a threat to Pakistan’s imagined existence as a monotheistic state and society based on a single (state-sanctioned and clergy-approved) strain of the faith.
Most Imran fans (if not Imran himself), like the pro-Musharraf ‘moderates,’ have, at best, sounded like modern 21st century versions of former right-wing Pakistani military dictator, Ziaul Haq.
Instead of a shervani and a stern frown, they can be seen in modern, western clothing and designer shalwar-kameez, spouting the most worn-out rhetoric and narrative that first started to be built up by the state under Zia and his politico-religious sidekicks.
It’s the usual beat: Pakistan and democracy are not compatible; democratic pluralism promotes ethnocentricity; secularism is akin to atheism; religious extremism and violence is the handiwork of the ‘anti-Pakistan’ and ‘anti-Islam’ elements (mainly foreign) …
Also, to these social media savvy ‘revolutionaries’ there is only one correct version of Islam but most Pakistanis follow a corrupted and adulterated version because they are illiterate and superstitious.
Anyone questioning these assumptions is a traitor, and that we need a strong leader who cannot come through democracy because most Pakistanis are ignorant.
Furthermore, anyone questioning the padded extremism and soft authoritarianism peddled by the bopping Imran fans is a ‘liberal extremist’ who is undermining religion and promoting ‘corrupt politicians’.
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Much is spoken, written and lamented about ‘Islamophobia.’ It’s a propensity found in some people (mostly among the non-Muslim in Western countries), who question and discriminate against the so-called ‘Islamic attire’, look and beliefs.
But those who speak the loudest against ‘Islamophobia’ have little or nothing to say about another social bend that is haunting their own societies: Islamomania.
I would like to describe Islamomania as a rather unhealthy obsession with religion.
It’s a fixation that is reactively and at times, systematically used to not only inflict bodily harm on those considered to be infidels or ‘bad Muslims,’ but by also those who attempt to maintain a shady moral ground and dominance over those considered to be spiritually flawed and inferior.
This tendency is also flexed to describe ones own professional, social and political shortcomings as being something that is due to the intrigues of those who are against Muslims.
To many Pakistanis, whatever goes wrong in society and politics in Pakistan is usually due to its external enemies ‘nefarious designs against Islam and Pakistan.’
This Islamomania in Pakistan is mostly found and flaunted in the urban middle and lower-middle classes.
It is an outcome of the careless and selfish socio-political experiments that the state and some governments began to conduct using religion as the main component (some 35 years ago).
More squarely put, this obsession with faith is the result of these experiments going horribly wrong.
Though, it emerged from the state’s disastrous experiments conducted to socially engineer a society that would be blindly obedient to a state-sanctioned, individuality-stripping and dystopian version of collective faith, ever since the mid-1990s, it has become a project of the society itself.
Such experiments that first began to take place in the mid-1970s and went on across the 1980s, till about the early-1990s as a state-backed project, finally spawned a social mindset and milieu that did not require policies from above anymore.
From the mid-1990s, the Pakistani society had well understood the economic, political and social benefits that came with things like overt religious exhibitionism.
As mentioned earlier, the classes that were in the forefront of recognising the above were the urban middle and lower-middle-classes. It was among these classes that most of the self-motivated Islamic evangelical movements emerged.
These movements and outfits peddled Islam as a way to bypass and reject an identity based on ethnicity or any secular ideology. It’s main underlining emphasis, however, remains to be about how to use religion as a way to gain economic success and social status.
Consequently, unable to succeed in electoral politics or walk the corridors of the country’s power politics, the Islamised urban, bourgeoisie and the petty-bourgeoisie began to invade, take-over and transform economic, cultural and social spaces that were inherently secular or at least non-religious.
Though it was the secular regime of Z A. Bhutto in the 1970s that is believed to have first sown the seeds of state-sanctioned Islamisation of Pakistan, it was military dictator, Ziaul Haq, in the 1980s, who is considered to be the main architect of state-sponsored and imposed ‘Islamisation’ in Pakistan.
The state in the past (especially in the 1980s) was the one imposing certain ‘Islamic policies’ upon a bewildered society; but from the mid-1990s, it is society (rather the middle and lower-middle class sections of it), that seems to be enforcing religious dictates and behaviorism in public space.
This has seen the proliferation of praying areas in offices, parks and airports, and/or the availability of praying areas outside the traditional praying centres such as the mosque; the overt display of scriptural verses on buildings and billboards; calls to pray (azaan) in shopping malls; the growing number of Arabic/religious expressions in everyday language; the explicit display of what is described and understood as ‘correct Islamic clothing and look’; religious gatherings in posh drawing rooms and in TV studios; sharing of sermons and religious quotes, and images on social media, etc.
It was a conscious and concentrated effort to display religiosity in public.
The ‘Islamic attire and look’ has been increasingly embraced by both the men and women of Pakistan’s
urban petty-bourgeoisie.
This is so because all this and more is treated and celebrated as symbols of the kind of social power that these classes have attained.
There are many among these classes who see these developments as a ‘good sign.’
But, of course, very few of them are willing to ask exactly why things like extremist violence, crimes (especially against women and children), drug addiction, the rise in psychological/psychiatric ailments, and political and social corruption have managed to not only grow but actually thrive at a time of this great Islamisation from below?
True to form the dynamics of Islamomania are such that the blame for all this is conveniently put on politicians, ‘foreign hands’ and the ‘illiterate masses.’
Questioning or even discussing such issues is more likely to get one labeled as an Islamophobe.
A photo of a congested psychiatry ward at a hospital in Lahore. The rate of psychological ailments and disorders has increased dramatically in Pakistan, ironically paralleling the rise of ‘Islamisation’ and the growing social influence of the urban classes. –Photo by Demotix
It is not the doctrines of faith that are put in danger by such discussions and questions.
It is the urban middle classes’ growing dependence on religious exhibitionism as a way to retain the economic and social benefits that they have enjoyed from the mid-1980s onwards, which comes into focus.
Sometimes the approach of Pakistani middle classes towards faith is like that of a capitalist’s towards consumerism.
This form of obsessive exhibitionism has increasingly been indentified by these classes as an expression of the influence that they are gaining outside the airtight confines of conventional power.
But the most disturbing thing about this obsession (in the context of its middle class social expression) is that, even when its more violent and extremist expression brutalises minority religions, different Muslim sects, law enforcement agencies and the ‘liberals,’ Islamomania forces the Islamised middle classes to either limit their critical response to such madness, or worse, remain quiet.
It is as if they believe that they’re akin to unwittingly let go of the social ground they have gained even if they condemn the bloodiest of acts partaken in the name of faith.
But then, though the main reasons of such a gain are almost entirely economic and to do with carving out a social niche, status and identity for oneself, it too is something partaken in the name of faith.
It’s a thin red line now between what constitutes open terror unleashed in the name of religion, and religiosity imposed with the help of overt religious exhibitionism and symbolism.
Nadeem F. Paracha is a cultural critic and senior columnist for Dawn Newspaper and Dawn.com
The views expressed by this blogger and in the following reader comments do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of the Dawn Media Group.
Mr Paracha has started the story from the middle.He has forgotten that it was Liaqat Ali Khan who way back in 1949 got Objectives Resolution passed thus bringing religion into state and thus burying Qaid-e-Azam’s Pakistan under tons of religious fervor,If somebody has harmed Pakistan in its infancy it is Liaqat Ali Khan.Then Punjabi civil servants sewn the seeds of separation between the two wings of Pakistan.Then came the handsome Hazarewal who manipulated election against Mather-e Millat although she trounced him in East Pakistan.He gave the reigns of Government to his successor Rangeela Yahya Khan.When the Mullah and Military got defeated they wanted a savior and a sacrificial bull and they found it in Bhutto.The Evil Religious parties of Mullah’s got hand in hand with Military and overthrew him and murdered him.They got their man in a willing and a vile General who set upon destroying the tolerance and decency and peace of the country and totally succeeded in it.He brought to Mullah not only street power but one other element he was lacking Arms and Ammunition.Now Mullah with Munitions took control of hapless Pakistani’s and changed the game in his favour.He declares who is Muslim and who is not,West is evil and supporter of Israel and that they should be tought a lesson-they had no dearth of recruits and they efficiently organised to indoctrinate immature brains with hate and anger and today we are reaping what we have sown over the decades.
Patriot Pakistani, “it was Liaqat Ali Khan who way back in 1949 got Objectives Resolution passed thus bringing religion into state and thus burying Qaid-e-Azam’s Pakistan under tons of religious fervor,If somebody has harmed Pakistan in its infancy it is Liaqat Ali Khan”
I request NFP to shed some light on Liaqat Ali Khan’s role that patriotic Pakitani has mentioned in his post.
NFP, your articles are normally brilliant. In comparison, this one was average. Perhaps you wrote this one in a hurry. I am a fan of yours and admire your bluntness towards how Islamisation has destroyed Pakistan. However, you blame the Zia regime for what has happened in Pakistan post 1978-79 in almost every article. I would personally like to read your views about the solution and not the problem. Your readers are well versed with your stance on that. Cheers !!
*Rightly blame
“I would personally like to read your views about the solution and not the problem.”
Certainly others would to. The unfortunate fact is that men never act in time. They always procrastinate and turn their faces to the wall until war is upon them.
Usually a people are left with two choices – a civil war because they have been misled by their leaders – or a foreign war in which the leaders convince the people their real enemy lives next door.
Seems a collectively sick thinking process- shows up in the increased number of psychiatric patients!
Just love the last cartoon. Sums everything up!
i personally resent this allegation from NFP. in fact, i take it as a personal insult. this shows how anti-PTI funds are showing up in the media:
“Its most recent advocate is cricketer-turned-politician Imran Khan. ……….at best, sounded like modern 21st century versions of former right-wing Pakistani military dictator, Ziaul Haq.”
this shows to what level a prestigious newspaper like Dawn will stoop down.
just to lay down the facts, PTI represents all sections of our society. just a visit to its website shows the diversity.
as for ratings, don’t we all know who are those folks making them?
@Faiza G R Bhatt;
Very well articulated. You have exposed much truth in your post. Gives us an idea about what actually is going on. And why such articles are coming forth every so often. Funds are being deployed. Hard to believe that the average Pakistani wants more of the same. Truth will win in the end. Pakistan will be saved from this multi-pronged onslaught. Just look at the cartoonist and author combination to build a ‘Straw-Man’ that can influence the best of brains.
I am glad your comment was published. Seems us sisters have to step forward united together as our brothers are being led astray by this unabashed falsehood propaganda juggernaut.
These pumpedup ratings are meaningless. We know where they are coming from. Non-starter.
NFP and Zia.fools both of them.wrong in different ways
Your voice is important not just for Pakistanis but for all hypocrites of this world. Thx
Bravo: We, indeed, need thousands of NFP’s in Pakistan. The mindset of lower middle and middle class must be changed. Someone in comments remarked that evolutionery process has stopped in the west. I believe he is totally wrong. This evolutionery process is infinitum…whosoever comes out of inorganic society and enters into organic society, the growth is there and continues. The whole episode narrated by NFP is completely true. \\Hope my friends in Pakistan read this multiple times to get what NFP wants to covey. Hip Hip HurAH nfp.
If you want to follow Islam you follow their language Arabic and their dress and culture ….It was arab tradition at the prevailing time.
ABU JAHL also had all the quality you mention.
Zia was compelled to use religion because of Soviet incurssion who wanted to reach hot waters of oil countries.USA refuse right help and so Saudia with their Wahabi teachings helped to create Taliban. When u r at war u have to use to fight with whatever have.Zia if remained alive for some time he had power to contain Jehadis
Indians write their own history ,USA refuses to help, it’s the USA war which Pakistani fought and suffering till now. Go and see Charlie’s Wilson war starring Julia Roberts. Osama was on the payroll of CIA
totally agree.. with khansaab
Those who get their history and facts from movies are easily led astray.
I am a Hindu from India , living in Canada for quite some time . May be my religious back ground disqualifies me to comment on the subject . But this is true that Muslims living here ( all of them I know , are from Pakistan ) have this strange kind of hesitation in mixing well with the other communities . Religion is such a bonding factor for them that the moment they find out any body is a Muslim in a gathering , they only interact with them and ignore the rest . This behavior is not only rude but also makes the rest look like untouchables . On their faces there is a conspicuous cheek to cheek smile but there seems to be a self imposed restriction which can not be missed at all . The other day I was at my daughter’s school for the Annual Chistmas Concert . A girl new immigrant from Pakistan was also participating . She told my daughter that her father did not come to attend her performance because he does not celebrate Chritmas . Now , how does celebrating Chritmas in Canada threaten his religion ? Why choose a country where you feel so insecure about your religion ? And forget about Christmas , what about watching your child perform on stage for which they rehersed tirelessly for weeks . I mean , why did he choose to immigrate to Canada where 77% population is Christian and 16% don’t believe in any religion . I also find it strange that the muslim pulation of Canada has increased by 129% in last decade , the highest of any other religion by huge margin !! Some people might reject my opnion especially coming out of a Hindu but I am no threat to my Pakistany friends . Its just that I find these facts very hard to digest . Being a Hindu , I can not offer suggestions or solutions for fear of , I might offend a Muslim P.S. Requesting moderators please allow my comments …… there is nothing offensive here .
Janab Sidda sadda banda, you are 100% correct that we Muslims tend to mix with and friends with Muslims only most of the time (I am talking about practicing Muslims living in west and not the ones with Muslim names only). The main reason for this is that we share a common culture and values. I live in UK and if I choose to go out with my fellow non Muslim colleagues then I have very little choice of where I can go. Mostly here people gather at pubs where they start by having a pint of Alcohol (which is forbidden in Islam) then they go out for dinner. Now only choice here for us is to eat vegetarian food, which is ok but as it is normally prepared in an environment where other non-halal food is prepared using the same tools, so it becomes doubtful for us to eat. That’s why you see halal restaurants and shops in west doing a tremendous business. Secondly, yes being a Muslim the only two festivals we celebrate are Eids (though I know many MODERATE Muslims will disagree with me on this). We don’t celebrate Christmas as its not our festival. We love Jesus as our prophet and follow his pure teachings. Now saying all that I must say that it doesn’t mean that any of us should look down upon any non-Muslim fellow. As humans we are all equal and have same rights and responsibilities. I have many very nice colleagues who I like being with and enjoy their company. When I was working in Saudi Arabia I had a Hindu colleague and we used to go out for dinners (as every thing there was halal and no Alcohol). Islam define everything for Muslim from what we eat to what we wear, where do we go and who we friends with and what we celebrate. Its a complete way of life and I invite you explore the religion of Islam and its true message and I am sure you will find it attractive.
looks like a nightmare from here. No thanks.
Well said. Like a dream from here. Much thanks.
I live in Canada too..and oftentimes,when I meet Muslims here…from Middle East/Pakistan/Africa and they accost me with a very RUDE ILLEGAL question…”Are you a Muslim?”..by law,a person’s religious affiliation CANNOT BE ASKED in Canada..and it totally unacceptable etiquette wise.
ONLY Muslims do it!!!
I react with instant dislike!
I get asked if I speak Urdu because my hair has turned grey. I take it as a compliment.
You don’t speak. You pontificate, inanities.
I am Muslim and love my religion. What Muslims need is education and self esteem more than sheria law. Education will free us up from the chain of the most uneducated and brain dead Mollas who speak for Muslim… Shan
Almost everynone talks about Shariah Law but no one has studied it, First study Shariah Law then condemn it. A simple common law degree takes two years. How much Shariah law have you studied? It takes scholars between four to six years atleast.
“It is an outcome of the careless and selfish socio-political experiments that the state and some governments began to conduct using religion as the main component (some 35 years ago).” It was not 35 it started 65 years ago when Jinnah – a secular like ZA Bhutto used religion in politics. He sowed the seed of intolerance and refused the democratic pluralism. Bhutto and Zia just took it a step further. What Pakistan is doing now it is exactly what it supposed to as an ideology based state.
Nothing of the kind. Jinnah’s intellect seems to bother you people even after so many decades. It always will. He was an intellectual giant in history. Will always remain so.
I’m a fan of Imran Khan and I believe in democracy and rights of all minorities. NFP don’t judge me as you don’t know me. Give me one good reason I should not vote for Imran. Why do you want me to vote for this rotten status quo – Zardari, Nawaz, Altaf and Asfand have given nothing but misery. Also. Faisal Shahzad doesn’t represent second generation Americans in USA so your argument of comparing them to second generation Pakistanis in UK is absolutely incorrect. Most second generation Pakistanis in UK are mirpuris who were born to illiterate parents who moved to UK when Mangla Dam was constructed. Second generation Pakistanis in US are thriving. I’m just glad I don’t live in Pakistan anymore and don’t have to put up with Zardari/Altaf and co.
Democracy is about freedom and the freedom to choose one’s own life. Mullahs simply see the opportunity to keep people on a chain.
If you want to behave like this then don’t move to the west. Stay home and spread Islam.
Great Article. Let us not give too much importance to religion
excellant article
Those who are holding the banner ‘Sharia for UK’ have no idea what they are asking for. All the dole money, luxury of freedom they are enjoying will vanish in a second and most of them will eventually get tortured and killed by other Muslims fighting some stupid war. This is a classic example of what religion does to human mind. No wonder many experts call it dellusional. Christianity suufered this disease for 300 years and killed at least 28 million (mostly innocent women and children). Let us see how long it takes Pakistan to get over this madness.
All the dole money, luxury of freedom they are enjoying will vanish in a second with their lives.
Some politician want to make culture secondary in Pakistan and religion prominent in place of culture.If religion becomes prominent then cultural languages has no place in Pakistan. Punjabi,Sindhi,Balochi,Kashmiri,Urdu have their roots in Sanskrit(language of Hindu gods in which Hindu scriptures are written) the divine language of Hindus.All languages of Pakistan are product of Hindu divine language Sanskrit.The truth is all ethnic people of Pakistan are Hindus forcefully converted by the Arabs(Calif) after conversion too Pakistani Muslims continued their Hindu culture.I ask my Muslim friends, If you want to follow Islam you follow their language Arabic and their dress and culture but don’t use our language which is Punjabi,Kashmir,Sindhi,Balochi,Urdu,Hindi etc and our culture of wearing colorful dresses like saree and salwar and instead wear hijab,nikab,burkha etc. I am asking my Pakistanis Muslims brothers and sisters please don’t use Hindu languages and cultures if your not following Hindu religion.
they should also not drive cars ,use mobile phones or internet ( oops — who is going to watch blue movies now ? )
Why Anyone has to follow Hindu religion? First , Hindusim is not a religion because it has not been made by one single person like Moses , Christ , Mohammad or Budha . you can call it a philosphy or way of life. The word Hindu is infact Sindhu for people living in Sindh area. All Pakistanis are Indo Aryans by race and are related by blood to northern Indians who speak indo-Aryan languages. They don’t have to speak Arabic or wear Arab dresses.
Dear Friend,
Islam is not specific to any race, culture, language or region. It’s teaching have been global from day one. I will strongly recommend you to read the last sermon of our beloved prophet Muhammad (S.A.W). http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/lastserm.HTM
It is about beliefs and open to all human kind. It provides clear guidance to one who seeks. It does not promote any race or culture. Please carefully look at the criteria Prophet (S.A.W) has clearly mentioned in the below words.
“All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action.”
Islam does not want any one to leave/change his/her culture, language or locality or even customs as long as they are not in direct conflict to Islam’s teaching….It was, is and will remain a moderate religion.
Unfortunately like all religions it’s the later people who knowing or unknowingly try to take advantage by either misinterpreting the key teachings or molding it all together to their own benefit..
With respect to your point of forceful conversion, Muslims (Mughals) ruled over India over 350 years but Muslims still don’t make majority in sub-continent (India, Pakistan and Bangladesh)…food for thought….
Muslims could not become majority in sub-continent not because of goodwill of muslims as you want to imply but due to great resistance shown by hindus. it is because of the atrocities by last strong mughal emperor aurangzeb to force conversion to islam and its strong opposition by Guru teg bahadur of sikh religion that lead to his execution in delhi. to save hindus from further atrocities of aurangzeb, Khalsa panth was formed in 1699 by Guru Gobind singh. This is all the part of history if at all you are interested to know it and that too correct.
by this i am not saying that all muslims or islam are barbaric and their actions should not be confused with the teachings of islam but when people start defending their action under the name of islam and without knowing proper history, it bring disgrace to islam as people start attaching those atrocities to be the part of teachings of islam.
Per your logic we were fish once as well. So please don’t drink water unless you follow customs of fish.
I agree and disagree.
It’s true that all the languages you mention, including Urdu, more or less, has connection with Sanskrit. Urdu is a hybrid language between Persian and old Hindi also known as Khariboli. But a fact, not much known beyond the academia is that both Persian and Sanskrit are derived from Indic branch of Indo-Iranian language tree, which in turn is a branch of Indo-European language tree. But it is plainly wrong to associate a language with any religion. Is Persian (Farsi) a Muslim language? No. It was there long before Persia was invaded by the Islamic Arabs. Is Sanskrit a Hindu language? No again. Sanskrit, before Panini, who wrote its grammar, is older than the Hinduism that we know today. Similarly, English is not a Christian language. English in its primitive form was the language of the Britons before Christianity arrived in Britain.
What I fail to agree with, is your claim of blatant exclusivity, and the latent superiority of Hindus over Muslims in general, and Pakistani Muslims in particular, as a practitioner of one or more of Indic branch of Indo-Iranian language lineage.
You are correct about Persian language being in existence long before Islam arrived in Persia and English widely in use before Christianity arrived in UK. However, neither Persians nor English denounce their ethnicity and believe that they are descendants of Arabs and Bedouins unlike Pakistanis who believe that they have no connection with India and they are descendants of Arabs. All those Pakistanis who believe that they are descendants of Arabs/Turks/Central Asians should preferably adopt foreign language and culture as rightly mentioned by @PatentHindu.
Islam does not any such rules, Islam is universal. It instead encourages the culture of the land. Dress amd language is not of any particular importance, modesty in your dress and being a good citizen is more important. “Oneness of God” is paramount. Get your facts right first and then attempt to write your garbage. Most of today’s recognition of India stems from what the Muslims left behind in literature, buildings, like the Taj Mahal and their cuisine. Before that you eat grass for the most part.
No, we didn’t eat grass as our culture was way more advanced before Islam arrived in India. There are significant evidence of amazing Indian architecture dating back to thousands of years, e.g. Konark temple, Ajanta/Ellora, and many other amazing artefacts found all over the country. Nalanda University is recognized as the oldest University in the world. The concept of zero was invented in India. Quadratic equation, concept of infinity and the value of pi was already known to Indian ancestors (watch BBC documentary) long before Islam arrived. Taj Mahal and many other Mughal architecture was conceptualised by the Mughals, but was built by the Indians including recently converted Indians. GDP of India in those days was the highest in the world and the Arabs didn’t come here to eat grass, but to loot and plunder considering that Somnath temple was attacked 7 times and all its wealth taken away. Get your facts right buddy.
Well they get their facts in their schools.
Very well put. There is nothing beautiful, peaceful, or intellectual in their culture.
Further, most of Muslims live outside the sphere of the Arab world that you are trying to refer to. The largest population is in South Asia, Pakistan Bangladesh, India. FYI
Good response. You have knowledge. Wish more of us had, to answer their fantastic lies.
If Hindus were converted forcefully in India how come majority of India is still Hindu ?, you and about 800 Million other non-muslims of India is the living proof of justice and tolerance of muslim rulers who ruled india for about 1000 years and never abused them or forced them or hate them, they let them live with their own choice of faith and culture and that is why you are still a Hindu. It was the Sufis like Khuwaja Moinuddin Chisti Rahmatullah who preached Islam and Indian masses willingly accepted Islam. One of the other reasons why Indians accepted Islam was and still is that their is no cast system in Islam, Islam teaches that all humans are born eqaully, while majority of low cast Hindus are still being persecuted in India. Urdu and all other reigonal languages you mentioned are not derived from sanscrit, Urdu itself is a Turkish word meaning Army, all other languages you mentioned being spoken in sub-continent even before Aryans came to India. My native language is Urdu, it might be yours as well so it got nothing to do with religion, this is true with any other language in the world. Now if you so much belevie in what you said why don’t you stop using Muslim Oil or Gas coming from Middle East, why don’t you say NO to Muslim Jobs in Middle East, why don’t you stop exporting meat to middle east, why don’t you say NO to USA and the rest of the Beef eating world, can you say NO ?
The Hindustani language evolved from a language widely spoken in parts of UP called “khari boli”. The grammar and composition of Hindustani language comes from Sanskrit and vocabulary comes from Sanskrit, Arabic, Persian, Turkish, etc. The Hindustani language was widely in use until 19th century when Muslims started using more and more of Persian and Arabic vocabulary and Hindus started introducing more and more of Sanskrit vocabularies. What is their to a language without its grammar and composition because you cannot have a language with vocabulary only.
Well said Moin. It’s amazing that so many Indians continue to sniff on Pakistani websites in heated debates . The bias & bigotry amazes me.
Very true, look at Indian news papers there is nothing but hatred for Pakistan. Pakistan papers are far friendlier to India and its readers. True India is a great country has always been. The Muslims made it greater there is no doubt it.There were no forced conversions ever Even today people covert to Islam for its simpilcity and devotion towards ONE GOD. With all the western propaganda the fastest conversions are in Europe and the USA. The problem is that Indians feel complacent, and they do not want a country next to them which does not take dictates. Sri Lanka is another look what they did to that tiny country for 30 years, Pakistan helped them finally to finish that insurgency. Bangladesh has cowered down to Indian pressure and so they are okay as far as India is concerned.Pakistan has stood up for what is its rights that does not bode well for India
Yea they are always here touting their defunct cult.
Excellent educated response. Good answer.
Language, culture are separate from religion. Muslims in Arab lands have different culture than Muslims in China, India, USA, Mexico, etc. This applies to Christianity and other religions as well. No one can claim monopoly over language, literature, culture, etc
I fully agree with the vulgar exhibitionism of religion by the Muslims of Pakistan, portrayed by NFP in this article, but I disagree with your comments that all Pakistani languages grew out of Sankskrit, that all Pakistani cultures are Hindu in nature or that the current day Muslims were forcefully converted. While I respect Hindu religion and it’s sacred books, there is no proof that they are as old as they are claimed to be and, in fact, it is not even known who the four Rishis were, where and how long ago. What is claimed is without any evidence. The problem is not with Islam but with those who are trying to monopolize it for personal gain. Islam is pluralistic and secular in nature and so was the society of it’s founder in Madina. Unfortunately, Muslims have forgotten the Divine Teachings and their societies are the ones which are decadent as a result. .
Very good educated answer. Thanks.
I am surprised to read ignorant comments such as PatentHindu who want to Patent Hinduism. He claims to understand the root of Sanskrit but totally forgot about Buddhism who gave birth to modern Hinduism. Why don’t you follow Buddhism if you want to follow their language? Please stop publishing intellectually challenged view of hate mongers.
Dawn is only exposing them. This is how this smart moderator does it, by letting them do it for themselves while all the time they are thinking they are preaching their extinct cult.
It is incorrect that Islam was forced on Hindus in India. None of the Muslim rulers in India was a good Muslim. Aurangzeb Alamgir fought with his brothers and arrested his father to become the king. This is not Islamic. Islam was actually accepted by people voluntarily seeing the likes of Khwaja Ajmer Chishti, Lal Shahbaz Qalandar and other saints.
As for language or customs. Islam does not stop anyone from speaking any language or following any custom. It is the likes of Taliban that have created hatred for Muslims and Islam. Although they too have nothing to do with Islam. Taliban just use the name of Islam for their political benefits.
Fact is that no religion, be it Islam, or Hinduism, or Christianity or Judaism, spreads hate or injustice. It is some followers who use the name of religion to justify their own selfish agenda.
Really unnecessary and sad comment, civilizations have evolved through the ages, while it is a good idea to read, understand and appreciate our history, negative comments do not do anyone any good. People have to strive to be good and understanding humans and evolve beyond the shackles of narrow mindedness.
My forefathers may have been converted by force or they may have embraced the message by their free will. I did not find any diary of events running through my family. Regardless of that, my faith is the most prized possession of my life. If I meet the Arab that forced my forefathers to convert to Islam, I will thank him for what he did. I will also tell him to stop converting people by force because oneness of God is a beautiful and logical concept and using force to propagate this message is not fair. But honestly, my understanding of human nature does not permit me to believe that forced conversion can be this deep and lasting. On the other hand, Culture is a territorial concept and I continue to wear what I wear and speak the language I speak and be Muslims at the same time. If Islam had told me to give up the territorial culture as part of my basic belief system, I would have done so. Keep in mind that I am not a fundamentalist Muslim and I do not approve of militancy at all. I am not a spokesperson of Muslims or a class of Muslims. Militancy and violence are political reactions of a part of Muslims of today (or have been so for some in the past). These are temporary phenomena. But I do not identify my religion as being violent in its character. To my personal understanding, Islam is not supposed to be believed in any ambigious or apologetic terms. If people cannot draw the line between being unapologetic and violent, it is their limitation of intellect. There have been and are millions of Muslims who are not violent and are opposed to militancy. Please don’t judge Islam by temporary political reactions of a few Muslims or even by the political reactions of a majority of Muslims. Be fair and honest. Leave margin for political reactions. Leave margin for non-militant Muslims even if they are a minority.
Islam does not allow conversion from the outside by force or otherwise. In Islam conversion must come from the heart and mind. In Islam conversion is not by words alone or by water bath or other ceremony. It is between the Creator and His creation.
Hmm , sorry Patient Hindu I am unable to understand the link between languages and Religion. So what you implying that all hindus in Pakistan and in India should wear Dhoti Kurta and Sarhee, and the Christain men in Pakistan and around the world should be wearing Long robes and christian women should be dressed like nuns…please grow up . FYI……Urdu derives primarily from the Khariboli dialect of Delhi, and incorporates a large amount of vocabulary from Persian, Arabic, Sanskrit and Turkic.
ha ha ha, We also have these nuts in Hindu, hopefully not terror-friendly… Subject क्या है, क्या बडबडा क्या राहा है…
Come on! Are you not implying opposite to what Pakistanis have been trying to establish.
They want to be called Arabs, sir, for your information.
Pakistanis have been trying to establish that they are, they have been, and they will be much different from rest of the world, especially Hindus. For that, they even cooked history, resorted to religious cleansing, legislated strict Islamic laws which even Saudi Arabia does not have.
May God let them succeed. The world is watching, see what they end up with, the process is very much unfinished so far.
Then I would suggest also don’t speak English because if you do then never wear an Indian dress either… nough said
Bal Thakre still alive…
As usual , another Indian prowling Pakistani websites with their warped version of Shining India. Stay home, sort out your own slums & troubles.
enemy’s problem is as good as morphine or opium. Try that on some Indian, Israeli, US or UK website to get the same evil pleasure.
You made my day. See how many response you got for your stupid comment! You prove that you can provoke Pakistani very easily. Instead of ignoring your comment they are debating on it. Hahaha!!!!
To : PatentHindu.
To explore more on the invention of the languages being spoken in Pakistan, I suggest you to study history first. It should be clear that Pakistanis do not speak the language of Hindus. Like most other languages of the world, Urdu also started its literature through poetry. Amir khusro (1253-1325) a remarkable scholar of Persian and Arabic is considered to be the first ever poet of Urdu language. The word ‘ Urdu ‘ is derived from Turkish word ‘ Ordu ‘ meaning ‘ Army Camp’ or ‘Lashkar ‘. Many Persian elements, which resulted in the creation of a new hybrid language called Urdu. The most established theory relating the origination, evolution and development of Urdu language is that Urdu is a conglomeration of many different languages, mainly Persian, Arabic, Pashtu, Turkish, Hindi and some local dialects of India. Unlike Hindus, where most of the Hindus of India origin are based in India and around the world. ALHAMDULLILLAH! Followers of Islam (Muslims) are based all over the world, i.e., from New Zealand to Paraguay comprising of different nations, who have different cultures too. They practice Islam and speak their own dialects and not like most of the Hindus of India, who speak only Hindi in India and abroad. Regarding dress code, you talk nonsense.
And educated response indeed.
Today, every author only highlights the ‘Problems’ but none discuss the probable solution. So did our beloved NFP.
My question to NFP, if you don’t agree with Imran Khan’s agenda then please come out and present your version of bringing peace and prosperity within our society. Write about what significant steps should our people and society take in order to amend fissures. Please don’t tell us what our problems are over and over again, We all already know them. Instead discuss likely solutions.
Let me ask you one thing, what is so different in Imran Khan’s vision of eradicating terrorism from West? If he says, he will try to eliminate terrorism through dialogue then how is it so different from US and its allies? after all they are also trying to do the same in neighboring Afghanistan and Iraq? aren’t they? What they have achieved from ‘War on Terrorism’ in the past 11 years?
Sorry NFP! but as like many other authors you also wrote a piece, full of sarcasm and criticism but nothing else.
Truth hurts.
@AHA: I am not denying it. Its a Truth and I admit that. The point I want to make that no body is giving any solution yet everybody is so busy in pointing out problems again and again.
@ Haris, the NFP has been giving solution by pointing out at the evil ways we as a society have adapted to. By doing away with the evils he has been pointing to, we can start afresh. Imran the cricketer we all loved. It is the evangelical Imran we fear. He never said how and what dialogue he has on his mind to pacify the determined Taliban ideology. He is often seen to align himself with JI. Is he naive or what? Does he not know their past and in the shape of Mr. Munawar Hasan their present? The west has its own vested interest and they will do what suits them. The question is what as a society we are willing to do to get rid of extremism in the name of Islam?
you are another desktop warrior of PTI. Get of computer and get some productive education. Trust me, pti won’t deliver anything you dreaming of.
@Abdul Sheikh: First of all, I am not a warrior of anybody.
and secondly, you are like a typical Pakistani corrosive mind who doesn’t have any opinion to share but instead try to infest others’ opinion.
No body ask you your assurance about PTI, we all know it very well.
by the way! who are you going to vote? Ok, let me re-phrase my question;
Are you going to vote in the next election?
Did you ever voted or took part in any elections in the past?
Well I’ll take a shot at answering you and saying what your beloved Khan will never say:
Dismantle religion from the inside. Don’t allow your children to learn some abominable text, parrot fashion, in a language that they don’t speak or comprehend. Entirely disassociate the state from religion. Roll back every religious law implemented from the notorious ZAB ban on alcohol to the latest idiocy emanating from parliament. Ensure a secular education for every child – this, incidentally, includes girls. Stop wasting your money on expensive toys for the boys. India has no ambition on your lands beyond Kashmir.
Can you do the above? I thought not, which is why you are where you are. NFP can preach weekly but nothing will change unless the people of Pakistan decide that the country they live in isn’t paradise on earth.
Start by banning all religious and ethnic parties. Recruit members of the law enforcement agencies on merit. Increase salaries of public servants to encourage honest and educated persons to join.
NFP you say about Imran and PTI that
” they see democracy to be a threat to Pakistan’s imagined existence as a monotheistic state and society based on a single (state-sanctioned and clergy-approved) strain of the faith.”
If Imran sees democracy as a threat, why has he struggeled for seventeen years to be part of the democartic system. He could have shook hands with Musharraf and become the PM, which other politician do we know today who would have refused that offer.
Why is it that PTI is the only party holding “democratic” elections within its ranks. I think just like islamomaniacs who only see the world from their perspective you have started to ignore facts that do not suit your own thesis.
You need to think beyond Imran Khan. He is sincere about helping Pakistan and there is no doubt. It’s the powerful religious lobby that is going to hijack his victory which is the problem. NFP understands this. Mullahs have never won an election in Pakistan. Imran Khan is their Trojan horse and they will sideline him if PTI wins.
His is Zardari’s agenda: Take Pakistan’s treasue and invest it in your name abroad.
NP, now i get— ,the title FISSURE IN THE MIDDLE— ,in context of Zia ul haq ( from the case of exploding mangoes) brillant…………
Zia was taken out by the CIA while using PPP help.
The uneducated poor know little how much Pakistan and Islam is behind the rest of the world materially. But the mobile ones, Aitchison and LSE educated, feel this perceived backwardness keenly.
Are Muslims really behind?
Of the 5 living Civilizations (Hellenized West, Christian Russia, Islam, Indics, Sinics) the West is the most advanced. And Islam is doing fine, thank you, if it were not, why would the best of the West be converting to Islam? Full 3/4 of converts are young (avg age 27), educated (above average), beautiful, nubile, white women from upper middle class families. Surely they have lived lives that our westernized youth can not even dream of, and still Islam lures them.
Yes. They know that Gloria Mundi is just that, because they have lived through it. They have seen the future, and it is not the West. It is Islam.
The Indics and Sinics are regional, racial. Christianity is other-worldly. That leaves the Corporate Capitalist West and Islam to battle out for the hearts and minds of the youth today as both systems are universal and city-based, Athens and Mecca.
Since antiquity, there are many models of governance in the world: some with a handful of rulers (Monarchy, Oligarchy, Aristocracy), others with a bit wider base. The two most popular of the latter type are Democracy and the Republic.
In short, Democracy is the rule of the fewer, the most moneyed, the Demos, the 5% males over the 95% rest (women, plebs, helots, slaves). The people serve the Demos. It stands for Law and Order, Laws made by the powerful. It emphasizes societal peace.
The Republic is the rule of the Public, a government of the people, by the people, for the people, led by the most learned who serve the people. It stands for justice, giving each his due. It stands for Natural Laws ( or Divine Laws) like “All men are created Equal …”. Republics stress individual freedom. Plato’s Republic describes the ideas were developed by Socrates who was condemned by Democracy.
Elections are germane neither to Democracy nor to Republic as each can exist with or without them.
Democracies are for stratified societies (Caste minded India, UK, Canada) with little social mobility. Republics are for socially mobile egalitarian systems (France, USA, RPC, Muslim countries). The Gini Index of disparity is much lower in Republics than in Democracies.
While Republic loving Socrates was martyred by the West, our Prophet remains the only person in history to have trounced his Demos – the combined force of Big Business Umayyads, Bankers Banu Abbas, trade monopolist infidels, and yehud, and founded the Secular Republic of Medina under God. He told us how to do it in the Quran.
Today, with globalization, the battle lines are Mecca 7th century writ large. The West fears that Islam will do an Encore. We shall, inshallah.
Whereas the West’s best turn to Islam, our youth have been fed with a false history or greatness – the Umayyad Kaliphate, the Abbaside Kaliphate, the Ottoman Kaliphate, the Muslim Empire in India. Now, our westernized youth look longingly to the “glorious” past of Islam. Then they wish to re-create that glory by bringing back the Kaliphate.
But the Kaliphate was the worst calamity to hit Islam. The body of our Prophet was still warm that his Republic was over and Demos was back. First the central pillar of Islam, universality, was toppled when the miniscule moneyed Meccans minority successfully argued that they were superior to the vast Medinan majority, and so deserved to rule, and to buttress their case cited Quran [9:100] to boot. Never mind that one “and” was doctored out which reversed the meaning totally. The rest is history.
Women’s rights were next to go, then justice, then meritocracy, then Free Trade, and then peace when Islam’s sword was sent far and wide, forgetting that our Prophet was sent to conquer hearts not lands.
Still, Islam survived the Kaliphate and monarchies. Despite this polluted Islam are we really behind today?
The Primal Question of Existence is Survival, Growth, Evolution, and religions provide the most optimal answers to this question. Islam of our Prophet and Quran is better because for the Trading Era we are in today, it provides the most efficient strategy for Survival, Growth, and Evolution.
The West has lost the battle of Evolution – it is below replenishment. The Westerner earns 20 times a Muslim, but does not have 20 times children, does not live 20 times longer, or healthier, happier life. In fact if you take out the evolutionally useless pill poppy-ing years from his lifespan, a Muslim lives longer than a Westerner today (he always has). And the West is losing its engine of growth, its women, to Islam.
The solution to misguidance is to tell the youth about the purpose of life, how Islam of our Prophet helps you solve it, and to dig up the true history of Islam and see how we can avoid past mistakes. The world is hungry for leadership, and only Islam can provide it.
So you’re saying that your goal is to convert non-Muslim women to Islam to drive down the “engine of growth” in other religions? And that’s Islam to you?
Where did he say that…he did not say not that.
Veryyyyyyyyyyyyy long, but very informative.
I think the thumbs down represent the prople who gave up reading after pulling some of their hair (I have none, so I read till the end).
Oh my god…….only hope for you is medication, these are not normal thoughts !!! And if you are really living in Toronto you know our free health care system will take care of you…of course funded and managed by Infidels……hope you will feel better soon.
LOL. “Free” healthcare system? What a joke. When something costs nothing, it is worth nothing.
I stopped going to doctors 20 years ago. I have an 85 year old friend who lives in Windsor, and when I visit him and need medical advice, I get it from him. I practice preventive medicine.
Grass is greener on the other side of the fence.
Is the ad hominem all you could come up with? Fail.
The Muslims of today’s are not a real representative of Islam. as regards pakistan, it’s seeds were full of controversies.
“The Westerner earns 20 times a Muslim, but does not have 20 times children, does not live 20 times longer”
What you talkin about?
well life expectancy is not highest among muslim states…pls check ur facts.lol
You seems one of the potential entrant to the congested psychiatry ward at the hospital in Lahore shown above by NFP. Better you get admitted there, otherwise the rate of psychological ailments and disorders will increase beyond control.
Another ad-hominem.
Thumbs up Bro!
MashAllah!
You keep coming back to western womens’ assumed tilt towards Islam (an euphemism for Muslim men). I say this because you said it on another page. Are you suffering from some sort of sexual perversity of a white shade?
Is that all you have in response to his erudition and knowledge?
Kudos to AbbasL
And to the thmbsdown brothers…. You will one day understand..
Seriously? What world are you living in where you see bright, educated people converting to Islam wholesale? They’re always disturbed people in the world, especially in prisons, but you’re hallucinating.
Tony Blair’s family women for one. I for another. I have a MD, Ph.D. Have read studied and accepted Islam. Any questions?
Mostly men convert in prisons. Why not?
Fellow Canadians like you SCARE me!
The world is hungry for leadership and only islam can provide it!! Just like in Pakistan, Afganistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Saudi?????
I can only laugh at this comment. No wonder Pakistani education system is in bad shape.
Comparing apples, oranges and bananas. Islam, Muslim, various Countries…get it?
Unfortunately your reasoning lacks logic: Education is supposed to enlighten your minds and make you a rational human being. It does not take much common sense to realize that all religion are man made instruments to control people. If there is god, he doesn’t need any religion and neither did he create one, for all men are the same before him and henceforth all religions are equally unnecessary. You do not need a religion to be a good person, and therefore you do not need to convert to become a better person. You can choose to be a good person no matter what. Think beyond just degrees, I know plenty of physicians and engineers who hold the best of degrees, but when it comes to religion they seem to loose their logical thinking. The same “educated” ones are converting.
Unread, uneducated platitudes,rubbish.
Wow ………… your delusion both amuses and scares me.
@abbastoronto
You can enumerate all the ills of the West and predict its demise and indeed their abuse of power is glaringly obvious. But it those very societies that ooze out creativity and innovation in every field of human endeavour. They encourage and promote human curiosity. To question. To examine. To research. To critically analyse. No entrenched belief system or organised religion is exempted. And if new findings disprove previous discoveries, they are welcomed and adopted. Nothing is considered final and complete. Hence knowledge is constantly renewed and widened. Criticism and debate
is integral. It really is time for Muslim societies to take an honest long hard look at themselves and no matter how much we fantasise that we are destined to become champions, the fact remains that Muslims have been intellectual parasites particularly in science and technology for over 700 years and there is not even flicker of hope that a change is in the offing.
“They encourage and promote human curiosity. To question. To examine. To research…”
That is what the Quran commands…but you have not read it.
What the Taliban are doing people in the west have an abhorrent view of Islam. There used be some conversions before , NOT NOW. Where did you get your information. I have seen many Christians who wanted to marry a Muslim woman agreed to convert to Islam. Not any more. Islam has been given a very bad image in the West. There have Quraan burning, torching of mosques and killing of innocent Sikhs because they looked Muslims. It is very bad picture of Islam right now. Osama and the extremists have done a lot of harm to the West but the greatest harm they have done is to Islam. These are the facts.
Keep dreaming in Toronto and wait for the direct deposit!!!
Practice what you preach and please get out of Canada to your land of blast.
Which Islam are you talking about?? None of the coverts are influenced by Pakistani Islam, I don’t think you have met any of them. The name Islam can’t be used loosely anymore thanks to our Islamomaniac friends. I live in Toronto too but I don’t see the “unhealthy west” that you see here, I don’t see West loosing it’s women to islam either do you have any data to support your opinion??
And please tell me why is it that questioning abuse of Islam is Pakistan (as done in this article) is always taken as Islamophobic??
Please refer this report on American Muslims from The Pew Research Centre: http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf. I belive this will clear a few doubts on conversion statistics.
Which democracy survives without elections of any kind?
Life expectancy in most of the ‘infidel’ countries at birth (US 78.2 years, India 65.5 years) is longer than in Pakistan (65.2 years). Not every American is pill-popping, pills are more expensive there as opposed to Pakistan. And is having more number of children without earning as much a good sign?
If you average the killing of infant baby girls in India by the millions you will find that the average age in India is nearer to thirty.
Almost all Americans including children are on some kind of pill or other. Even young army soldiers are on all kinds of pills. All this is documented and recorded in detail. Billions of prescriptions are written every year.
Greetings from Dearborn MI
People here in the US go on life-support from day 1. Sad, really sad.
Then, our food is heavily drugged – Hormones, pesticides, irradiation.
Very bad for Survival, Growth, Evolution.
Best wishes
And where does the writer place the 1.3 billion Chinese in his categorisation?
Hamid Zaid sir, you’re posting the same script on every subject.
I don’t think you get what’s being said. Pakistan is made up of different cultures, Sindhi’s, Punjabi’s and the like. Culture is essential in helping keep any society together, and functioning. Do you really believe an Islamic, awakening or revolution led by Pakistan’s already confused middle class, is going to help the illiterate masses whom along with being deprived of basic necessities, are now being force fed religion in every aspect of their being as their only salvation?, instead of a true struggle for their civil rights and liberties?. Islam as a cultural identity cannot bind a country as culturally and ethnically diverse as Pakistan, it is every ones personal matter. Saying that Muslims live longer and happier lives than Westerners is rubbish, what about the poor Muslim masses in Pakistan, in Somalia, in Sudan? are they happy?. Remember that the myopic view of the Pakistani middle class and clergy today is what’s killing us, culture cant be erased, we are not Arabs, Muslims yes but culturally one with India.
So i believe you should think twice before saying Islam is the only salvation of illiterate masses, without access to basic necessities, as opposed to a struggle for these rights. Without this corrupted middle class Pakistani view of religion clouding an already murky picture.
Assalamaalaykum Abbasbhai,
A little request, please try to keep your cooments smaller than the article itself. You do write very well and interesting, but its too lengthy.
raja Sahib:AOA
Sorry, yes, it did become a bit long.
Best wishes
Zafarov: Greetings
The West has been on a banana peel since some 150 years already. All great inventions were done in the 19th and first half of 20th century. Today, the West is in survival mode, not growth mode, is fearful, and fear is not conducive to innovation.
The West, despite all its great achievements and 100% control of the globe for 400 years 1600-2000, is losing the battle of Survival, Growth, and Evolution, the only game in town.
Mohammad:AOA
The conversion rate quadrupled after 9/11. In the past western women used to convert after marriage. Now they first convert, and then try to find a Muslim husband.
Nasir: AOA
Yes, the new converts do not follow “Pakistani” Islam, but Koranic Islam.
Nebu: Greetings
Democracy and Republic are concepts of governance. Election is a means to chose the leaders – both in Democracy and Republic. However, in a Republic, it could be a bottom up selection process.
I was speaking of “evolutionally useful lifespan” not calendar lifespan.
Sanjiv: Namaste
Chinese in PRC, People’s REPUBLIC of China.
The whole article is about Pakistani Islam, You are missing the the point of this article. Please pay attention to the article
Huh?
let islam provide leadership to muslim world first!!
I was reading Mr Nadeem PAracha since long .we need more and more Nadeems the present day Islamic societies to bring back the people -who are misguideed by fundamentalist Muslim religious organaisations – to their senses .I would call upon him to be moderate I his critisims to avoid the attention of these mad chaps would not hesitate to do physical harm to him.
Murthy: Namaste
It is not the Fundamentalist/Taliban Muslims who are the problem. They are the lesser evil. In fact, they do not ask for much, and they can be accommodated easily as Jinnah did quickly in 1947. For the first time in troublesome NWPF there was peace in 100 years.
It is the mainstream Islam that hates Christianity, Hinduism, the West, in fact the whole humanity. They always have. The 1,400 years of history of Islam is that of conquest, colonialism, and exploitation of others.
But Islam was not meant to be so.
Muslims should go back to the True Koranic/Mohammedan Islam, not these new religions. (The Shia sect was formalized 150 years after our Prophet, and the Sunni sect some 225 years after his death)
Sorry liberal Fascists …. We Love Islam. We Love Islam to extent that u Love and Respect Democracy….. We Love our Scholras Anajum Chaudhry, Farhat Hasmi, Anwar Awlaki, Musa Cerantonio, Zakir Naik, Bilal Philipse…. and hate Zardari, BayNazir, Nawaz, Bhutto up to top of ur fickle Nationalist Leaders Ladder… inclusive those u think have borrowed this Country from the Creator of Universe through Bargaining…..
Can there be any hope for this country when you don’t even see the horrible conditions that you’re living under?
none of these names mentioned above preach true islam. farhat hashmi and co, they are totally unislamic..they only preach arab culture, which is NOT the islamic culture.
If you love these people then you are not human. These people belong to the same category. The one thing that differentiate these people from humans is the complete absence of tolerance in their preachings and practices. Any one who does not believe and follow their footsteps is, according to them, a kafir bound to Hell. Unfortunately, what they do not know is that they are the very fuel of Hell. How fortunate for the rest of us!
What are you when you call others not human? Where have I heard this before: Nazi, Neo-Nazi, ZioNazi, Christo-Fascist…others.
You don’t love Islam rather you hate it and are bent on destroying it. We, the liberal fascists, in fact love the real Islam!!
You can like what ever you Want .But our problem we want other people should join us and only option we know violence , hate and anger.
And the people you hate are the one representing Pakistani . I mean any Pakistani can join them irrespect of religion or race ,language or region
No one is going to come and stop you from loving Islam. Problem is if I do not show outwardly love and follow your suite, the kind of yours come after me to harm me. That is the difference between you and me. And loved your smiley. If it is from the heart.
Considering that 18 out of 75 have rated your comment up and assuming that 15 out of 75 are non-Pakistanis who have rated your comment down, the ration of 18:60, i.e. 30:100 is a very serious indication of where thinks are heading in Pakistan. Wake up the liberal Pakistanis.
Most, over 90% downs, are from non-Pakistani, non-Muslims. My opinion and assumption may be nearer the truth since this behaviour is common here. Few Pakistani and Muslims read this paper. Most are ‘others’ usually bashing Islam and Pakistan.
I believe that this is an attitude problem. Pakistanis are born and bred in an envirinment of fear. They are preached to, consequently they become brainwashed. The problem is more here in the UK where their own attitude prevents and consequently precludes them from mixing into Western culture where they have a chance to understand it and then seek to work out why we are different. The only way out of this mess is to allow unfettered growing up to our kids, knowing fully that we have given our best to them and having confidence in the training we have given them. Then let them seek their fortune (not just money) from around the world so that they can grow mentally. Our culture of fear is scaring away many people from Islam even in Pakistan. This has to stop. The numbers of new athiests is swelling by the day. How to you explain this exodus?
Aizaz Moin, what to do when mantle patient refuses the medicine?
So true.
A 5 year old Pakistani already knows more about the fire in the hell waiting for him unless he does this or that, than he knows about how to respect others and appreciate life.
Brother NFP.
NO matter how much you try.Imran khan is already won heart throughout the Pakistan.as evident from the comments below
I am so Happy in this time of turmoil we are about to chose Imran khan as the future savior of Pakistan.A great leader i must say
NFP if this article was nt about NFP.i would have given you positive rate.bt as in the past i said.nothing work against Imran khan.
terming this as an epic fail
May you live long to see the fruits of “Imranization”. Ameen
Desktop warrior can’t deliver anything. What does pti promise to give you?
As compared to Zardari et al?
secular Pakistan: AOA
Here is why TPI will not fly. It will not even get off the ground.
The word Insaf is pre Islamic, and not in the Quran. “Munsif” is neither one of the 99 names of Allah, nor of the 99 names of our Prophet.
But why has the word patently in common vocabulary, and misconstrued for “justice” whose Arabic equivalent is “Adl”. “Adil” is certainly a name of Allah and of our Prophet. In fact Allah is “Adl”.
The root of “insaf” is “nisf”, meaning half, or generally, “Equity”. A tooth for tooth, an eye for an eye emanates from this principle. Equity was the central principle of Bani Israel long before prophet Jesus brought out a more humane sharia based on Love.
When two women appeared before nabi Solomon claiming the same child but without the proof, applied the law of “Nisf”. A child was legally a property, and so would be divided half each. But the true mother protested, so using his reason Solomon applied “Adl”, giving each his due.
The principle of Equity is pre Islamic. Sura 8, Anfal, begins:
[8:1] They ask thee concerning (things taken as) spoils of war. Say: “(such) spoils are at the disposal of Allah and the Messenger …
New Muslims were used to the older principle of Equity of Jahiliya, and insisted on equal division. But the Prophet gave each his due. Here are the ayat that forbid the application of the principle of “Insaf”.
[4-95], [5-100], [6-50], [19-9], [24-11], [16-71], [16-75], [16-76], [32-18], [39-9], [39-29], [40-58], [41-34], [45-21], [57-10], [59-20]
Alas, in the early days of the Kaliphate, the Principle of “Insaf” was re-introduced in Islam. Here is a famous story:
“ .. A common man got up and accused Kaliph Umar that he had plundered from the war bounty and was not fit to be the Kaliph thus. The man alleged that he had taken for himself two pieces of cloth from the bounty to make the dress he was wearing that day, while everyone else has received just one piece. Umar’s son stood up and bore witness that he had given his share to his father.”
Therefore, the Muslims had reverted to that anti-Koranic, anti-Mohammedan practice of Insaf, the Kaliph and his son and everyone else receiving the same quantity.
On the face, “insaf” is a laudable principle, however it is anti-Quranic and anti-nature. In our modern times the Socialist System, based upon this principle, wrecked the lives of 4 generations in the 20th century, until it was obliterated from earth.
The principle of Insaf is patently a Talmudic concept. I wonder if this is a jewish gift that our dear Imran is trying to present to Pakistan.
If Imran fails to deliver then WHAT ??? Don’t put all your faith on one guy otherwise he fails then there won’t be anybody to recollect.
i agree.