Indo-Pak friendship: The phoenix without wings
Arts and sports have played an immense role in propagating peace across the world. Artists, philanthropists and sports celebrities have often proved to be the only people to have tried to change the status quo of the hostile relations between many countries such as India and Pakistan. Whether we talk about candlelight vigil at Wagah-Attari border, participation of Pakistani sportsmen in Indian Premiere League (IPL) or artists traveling across the border to share their work with people residing in both the countries, their efforts to develop the camaraderie between millions of estranged Indians and Pakistanis is endless and many a time beyond belief.
However, it is extremely unfortunate that the aforementioned people are always the first to be singled out whenever the tensions between India and Pakistan intensify. Last week nine Pakistani players, who were to participate in Hockey India League (HIL), were sent back home because of the mounting tensions at the Line of Control (LoC).It is also being speculated that Pakistan’s women cricket team may not be able to participate in the upcoming World Cup because of the tragic events which resulted in untimely deaths of Indian and Pakistani soldiers. Indian politicians, enraged with the situation, urged Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to take strictest action against Pakistani authorities. Some even demanded for “10 heads from Pakistan” for the alleged beheading of an Indian soldier whereas others speculated that certain radical elements were behind the execution.
Although what happened at the LoC can only be described as deplorable and detestable, however, acts of a certain individual or group should not be taken as cue to blame all Pakistanis as most of them bear no ill will towards Indians.
Sujal Tirpal, an Indian from Mumbai said, “It is most unfortunate that many people in India still consider all Pakistanis to be terrorists. It is a common phenomenon especially in North India where people refuse to believe that Pakistanis can see Indians or India progressing. What most of us fail to realize is that when we stereotype people on the basis of their nationalities, we become prejudiced and offensive in our own thoughts.”
He went on to add that, “People who possess such feelings and thoughts for fellow human beings, be it Pakistanis or Indians, can easily resort to the most evil means and kill indiscriminately without any remorse. If the educated people are unable to understand the difference between innocent Pakistanis, who play no part in jeopardizing the existence of India, and savage militants then we all should just crawl back to our caves.”
However, some Pakistanis and Indians differ from Tirpal’s opinions and believe that if an attack is launched from either side of the border then showing mercy towards any individual is considered against the basic rules of patriotism.
An Indian from Delhi on condition of anonymity said, “I completely agree with the ideology of Shiv Sena and it is our responsibility as Indians to keep Pakistanis away from India. They have never been one of our well-wishers. They attacked us in 1965, 1971, 1999, 2001 and then again in 2008. Sometimes they kill our soldiers and on other occasions they kill innocent civilians. I strongly believe that most Pakistanis are not peace loving and are always plotting against Indians or India.”
“Pakistan’s army, rulers and general public are all against India. We have suffered immensely over the past several decades because of their hidden vendetta against our state. I don’t want Pakistanisportsmen, artists, businessmen or politicians coming to our country and ruining our peace,” he added.
Reciprocating equally to the hostile sentiments of the aforementioned individual Salman Abbasi, a Pakistani from Lahore said, “instead of harping on and on about peace and what good it will bring to the South-Asian region, we all should just accept the fact that India and Pakistan can never become friendly nations. We are poles apart and I think we should break all ties with them because they keep on blaming Pakistan for everything that goes wrong on their border or in their country without having the decency to share any substantial evidence with us. They have been blaming us for over six decades now and I really do not think that they are interested in moving on to build better relations with us.”
Listening to all the negative comments I just could not stop thinking about why is it so difficult for us to believe that India and Pakistan can put the past behind and embark on a journey of healthy relations? Why is it unfathomable for many of us that we truly belong to the same race and are exactly similar in many ways? Is Indian blood any different for Pakistani blood? Why is it so easy for us to give up on each other without even thinking twice?
I refuse to believe that majority of Indians and Pakistanis endorse some of the negative feedback that I received. I know that most of us have positive feelings towards each other and stand united on various fronts. My thoughts were positively reinforced when I read a news report about Indian women protesting against the killings of Shia Muslims in Quetta. Simultaneously my views were once again proven true when young students from India and Pakistan met in New Delhi and vowed to spread peace.
Had armed forces and politicians from both sides of the border acted as gracefully and prudently as other civilians, the situation could have been controlled. It is important for all of us to understand that the people responsible for all the bloodshed do so to serve their own personal interests. They are neither friends of Pakistan nor foes of India. Their only motivation is power and money and by falling into their trap, every time they fuel violence, we just make their task easier. Although it is very difficult to control emotions over the loss of innocent lives, however, by giving rise to situations which may result in further loss of human lives, we prove to be irresponsible. Unless we give peace real chance, radical elements will continue to capitalize on our sentiments and turn us against each other.
The writer is a Reporter at Dawn.com
Pakistan politicians, ISI and other agencies always india as a “propoganda”..
1. That the mumbai attacks was done by someone within india , it has been proved that this was done by LET , zakir ur lakhvi has been arrested for carrying out ..what was the outcome.. 200+ innocent people died .. did that resolved kashmir issue?
2. That the soldier killed brutally with head cut and headless body sent.. pak says again propoganda, and its a design by indians..did that resolved kashmir issue?
3. Kargil war was started by pak with no apparent motive killing hundreds of soldiers on both sides.. Musharraf calls it a great success.. what a dumb sucker ..did that resolved kashmir issue?
India can never give up kashmir as the government that does that will be outsted in moments.. as people will not vote that government ever.
same on pak side, if politicians give up kashmir issue they will not remain in power..
bottom line.. these politicians are fighting for useless reason and the fight will never end.
Javed, There is a way Pakistan can get Kashmir (minus Jammu and Ladakh) i.e. please collect all the 65 million muslims from India. Or stanch Pakistani supporters in OIC can take us or all weather friend China! Because ‘Two nation theory’ is the culprit of all the hate. Another way is all out Nuclear war. Who survives lives! Till then Kashmir is only serving to Pak ISI/Military and Politicians! So True muslims go and use nuclear and take Kashmir! Few heads will not help!
Who killed karkare, did you ask?. Why the most photographed terrorist the only one captured alive, did you ask? Did india kill a Pakistani soldier dasy before the two indian soldiers were killed, did you ask? What role indi played in training Mukti Bahinin terrorists, did you ask? etc. if not then you can’t ask any questions of Pakistan.
Mr Akhtar, even your own country has outgrown your juvenile conspiracy theories. Give it a rest.
karkare was killed by those terrorists, nothing to ask.
terrorist caught alive was most photographed ,but obvious, nothing to ask
which soldier initiated fight , nothing to ask, but mutilating bodies is not acceptable on either side
India played critical role in mukti bahini because east pakistani refugees were flooding indian territory, west pakistani soldiers were looting and raping women in east pakistan. nothing to ask..Bangladesh was accepted as a country by the world..bangladesh is now a much stronger country and very peaceful.. compared to pakistan…
Did you ask??
Sorry to burst your bubble. Mukti Bahini training started years before trouble started in East Pakistan or Pakistani forces went there. It is important who started the LOC firing as it shows the intentions. Indians are sounding more like teh israelis now, do as we say not as we do.
No matter what you and your media spreads…but remember you are fooling your won people! The reality is 1 soldier was beheaded like its been going on since last few years. Pak army denies it while terrorist/millitents allowed to execute this barbarian act? If not the pak army than who would do such a barbaric job? If pak is serious on their “so called peace talk” than why no representation from pak army in any talks? first, pak govt. has to work with their own army than expect others to work with their agenda. Too much expectation from India is not going to work…look at Canada and USA and learn from them. after all we are a same race and ethnic people. please stop radicalizing the innocent mass of people.
you really seem to belive your media wonder who is fooling who.
Faiza, while your sentiments are right on, there is one big difference. The percentage of peace-wanting Indian is much higher than those in Pakistan. In fact the middle-class intelligencia like you, is itself a huge minority in Pakistan. If you guys yourselves are not able to get peace for yourself, against the radical army and terrorists, we cannot depend on you to extend peace with India. It is not your complete fault (some part surely is, for allowing such things to happen over the year, starting with the Partition based on hatred and religious chauvanism) and certainly not within your power to stop them. However the mistake that us Indians keep on making is to talk to you guys, listen to your good senses and start working on peace, only to be stabbed in the back by the same guys who stab you all the time. Unless your country attains internal peace, there can be little hope of peace with India.
would you mind justifying the 1971 Indian Govt and Army’s direct and indirect involvement to disintegrate Pakistan? i.e. Bangladesh now? Would you please like to elaborate as to why a psychological campaign to infiltration into Bangladeshi minds especially youth to hate Pakistan was instigated through media? Would also like to define as to why Separatist elements and terrorist groups are being supported by India? Would you also tell as to why through a well conceived plan water through Kashmir into Pakistan is being reduced? Why Sindh Tas declaration is being covertly violated? Would you also tell to why the Indian media projects and sensationalizes in a negative way every development in Pakistan nuclear program or for that matter army? The simple technique used by Indian Govt and Media is childish, its like “ok the one who blows the horn louder is the winner” and thats what you always do…media hype – before you find any evidence. And Two Nation theory would stand as it is, just as your theory and dream of a greater India. if you want to move towards Peace, then i must tell you.. it would be peace only when you stop blaming. There cant be any accord on unequal terms. Dont expect us to abide by the vague conditions you pose onto us. You demand us to assure you that no terror attack be conducted from Pakistani soil? I demand YOU assure that “No spy operations that disintegrate Pakistan and create unrest be conducted from Indian Govt and intelligence agencies be conducted in Pakistan.”
To all proud Pakistani’s, Justification for 1971 – It was right thing to do. It was right to save Bangalis from genocide. So it was done. And Bengalis are far more independent and happy. Answer to all your above question is very simple and just in one word – Baluchistan!
You can NEVER undo Bangladesh BUT you are loosing Baluchistan. And Insallah it will be done. You can eat your nuclear. Russia disintegrated with 10K nuclear! So will be the Pakistan! Khuda tum kahan ho? Please help Shais…
1. From 1947 till date , Pakistan army is trying to get Kashmir separated from India. Of course all the attacks were blunted by India and then in 1971 when Bengali themselves wanted to get rid of “west Pakistan” atrocities and unfair treatment , India “helped” them. If Bengali did not want to be separated then no matter how much India would have tried, it would have failed to separate the Bangladesh from Pakistan
2. Pakistan government has not produced a single evidence to prove Indian involvement in any terror activities in Pakistan, including the much hyped “foreign hand” in Balochistan.
3. There has not been a single proof that India has stopped the fair share of water of Pakistan. As part of treaty , India is free to build as much dam as it thinks fits its needs.
4. India was right about Pakistan nuclear program of it being not in safe hands which proved right when the so called Pakistani “nuclear scientist” confessed that nuclear technology was transferred to Libya and North Korea.
All this peace talk from Pakistan is coming when it has all this pressure mounted on it from their own “strategic weapons” and Pakistan army does not want two fronts opened both east and west so they are pushing the politicians to talk peace with India to get them a bit of relief by ensuring nothing happened on eastern borders if they go all out on West.
As long as army is calling the shots in Pakistan, there can not be a permanent peace with Pakistan.Period.
“The percentage of peace-wanting Indian is much higher than those in Pakistan”… LOL who told you that. Just by looking at indian comments here and on your own websites it seems 99% of indians hate Pakistan as there is no tomorrow.
Ever wondered who is really benefiting out of this “hatred” ……… go ask any common man (either side of the border) what are his opinion about the neighboring country. THEN, follow is up by asking him why he thinks so, and i am ready to bet that the two most common answers would be 1. Media 2. Politicians telling us to hate each other. What i am trying to say is both countries are responsible, may be there is a stronger force which does not want them to be friendly. Till the time that wall is not broken down, we all will remain INSECURE.
http://tribune.com.pk/story/401433/survey-in-pakistan-india-a-bigger-threat-than-al-qaeda/
Please research properly before writing articles. Refusing to believe something doesn’t prove it otherwise. Even if majority want ties to improve, can they expect that to happen when 44% of Pakistanis believe Osama Bin Laden to be a martyr (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2011/05/17/great_news_44_of_pakistanis_see_bin_laden_as_martyr)? If this is what they think about Osama Bin Laden, what would they think about Hafiz Saeed? What about the continuous disregard of Hindu Gods and Goddesses in Pakistani media and stage dramas? Even if we say India is secular, majority of Pakistan still believes in two nation theory and in that sense, it is a direct attack on India. Whatever be the reason, if people’s sentiments in both countries don’t improve, all these efforts will bring no fruit. I’m all for peace but I don’t see it happening any time soon, at least till people like Hamid Gul are promoted in the top institutions of either country.
Patriotic: Greetings
44% Pakistanis think that OBL was wronged because he was – murdered without trial. I bet if he were convicted of the allegations this % will drop to single digit if at all.
The 2-nation theory is bunk because neither Pakistan nor India fit the agreed upon classical definition of a Nation. A 2-System theory is more apt, and it is true because anyone who has visited the two places knows that Indians prefer peace while Pakistanis prefer freedom, and you can not have both.
But these fundamental differences notwithstanding, peace is unconditionally better for both parties.
Hello Abbas.
Considering him a martyr? Why is it that the whole world still considers him a mass murderer terrorist and only in Pakistan, he is supported by such a large majority? Please also understand that he had been declared a terrorist by the whole world including the U.N. of which Pakistan is a member state. This is not a thug we are talking about here. One needs to acknowledge that there are people in the media and among the politicians in Pakistan who are in a continuous state of denial and the pakistani people at large have been susceptible to conspiracy theories and their politicians, media and hate mongers have taken advantage of this and misguided them. Right from Kargil where Pakistan refused to acknowledge their own soldiers to Mumbai attacks, there has been a sense of denial from Pakistani side and it is the same with acknowledging Osama Bin Laden as a terrorist. I’m not supporting the U.S. here and I also think that he should have been given a fair trial. However, I do not, unlike 44% Pakistanis consider him a martyr and am not sad at his killing.
A nation refers to a socio-cultural entity, a union of people sharing who can identify culturally and linguistically. This concept does not necessarily consider formal political unions. This was the definition on the basis of which some Pakistani politicians declared a two nation concept in the south Asian region. This notion of a nation itself considers Muslims to be some sort of a different ethnic or cultural group from the rest of the Indians (predominantly the Hindus) which is certainly not true. Some people in Pakistan also tried or still try to propagate the myth that they were Arabs and not Indians in order to somehow solve the existential dilemma of Pakistan. This notion failed at the time of independence when an equal number of Muslims stayed in India as did in Pakistan and further, in 1971. India is home to 1.21 billion proud people belonging to several religions, castes, creeds, colours and languages. Yes, there are problems. We do fight with each other over petty issues and some serious ones as well. But I am willing to bet my life on the fact that over 95% of Indians are proud to be part of this great nation and also consider the other 5% as Indians.
As far as peace and freedom is concerned, India wants both peace and freedom for its people. That is why, our constitution and institutions guarantee equal rights to all sections of people and in some cases, also support affirmative action to the extent that there is sometimes backlash from the elites on these matters. This is the strength of India. And Pakistanis want freedom? What kind of freedom do Pakistanis want when a person belonging to the minority in Pakistan can’t contest for the top most seat of the country? If by your sentence, you mean some kind of a freedom from India, then please understand that India has no intention of interfering in the sovereignty of Pakistan.
Regards
Patriotic Indian
May be you can give a benefit of doubt to Pakistani people on Osama but let me ask about the assassination of Salman Taseer. How many Pakistani think that his murder was an act of barbarism? The way Qadri was offered Garlands by so called educated lawyers on the street , it is a reality of Pakistani society.
In a population of 180,000,000 even if 10,000,000 consider Salman Taseers murder to be ok (I am exaggerating wildly), that is only 1 in 20.
If few thousands are killed by militants in Pakistan, don’t bother. Because percentage to total population is negligible
I bet you if there is a survey done today in all across Pakistan and asked people what do they think about Taseer’s killing , you will be surprised to see how many would think of it as a good riddance. You are under estimating you country.
While most Pakistanis aren’t terrorists, most of them allow terrorism to occur in their midst and in their name. Mumbai attacks was an unacceptable terrorist attack and Pakistanis did not implicate a single person and most likely, the people caught will end up being freed. In fact, most of Pakistani media (with the exception of Pervez Hoodboy) and government blamed RAW for Mumbai attacks! Go back and read the editions of Dawn or watch the archived Pakistani media on youtube, There needs to be punishment for Mumbai attacks. In fact, most Pakistanis were against hanging of Kasab, even though right after the Mumbai attacks, they called him a RAW agend. Heads should have rolled for housing Osama Bin Laden. All Germans were not Nazis but they were guilty of allowing Nazism to occur in their name. All Pakistanis are not terrorists but they are guilty of allowing terrorism in their name.
You have tried to neatly bracket Pakistanis with the Nazis. Sorry to burst your bubble but unlike Nazis, Pakistanis are the direct victims of terrorism. Over 35000 innocent civilians have been killed as a direct result of terrorism in the last 10 years and you are still whimpering over the Mumbai attacks even after Kasab has been hanged. You should move on now.The Nazi party was a democratically elected government, like your Modi’s government. Pakistan’s government is not terrorist but is constantly being targeted by terrorists. Only over the last month 2 serving ministers have been assasinated by the Taliban. As for heads rolling after Osama, which heads are you talking about? Zardari wasn’t hiding Osama. All 19 terrorists on 9/11 were Saudis , so do you think Saudi heads should roll?
Wait a moment here and think about it. Pakistan being a victim of terrorism? Whose terrorism? US? Afghanistan? Indian? No sir, Pakistan is a victim of its own terrorism. The monster child that you so fondly nurtured is a full grown up adult and now asking its own fair share of power and ready to take it all by Force. Remember the days when these terrorists were martyrs and soldiers of Islam when they were killing hindu Pandits and Indian soldiers in Kashmir? What goes around, comes around.
There are too many myths against hindus actively promoted by Pakistanis (especially military) and religious scholars. 1 muslim is better than 10 hindus, muslims are honest while indians are cheats, islam is a better religion while hindus believe is wrong things, 1 muslim soldier is better then 10 indian soldiers, etc. The only thing propagated in India is that all pakistanis are the same – they hate India. Not, which one is easier to dispel?
I was also brainwashed with all those slogans as a kid.
But after the defeat of Pakistan in 1971, I realized that there was something seriously wrong with our ‘beliefs’. I was not even a teen at that time. But even today, most of my ‘greying’ friends believe that we can overrun India in a few days. All we need is to stand ‘united’ under the banner of Islam.
You should move to india they can do with a traitor like you
Akil Akhtar — you call AHA a ‘traitor’ for negating the Muslim delusion that one Muslim is equal to 10 Hindus in valor — this Hindu-kush delusion is actually a Muslim killer — because Pakistan fought three wars under this delusion and lost all three — with 90 thousands Pakistani prisoners — no wonder you call yourself Akil – not Aqil.
I support Pakistan no matter what and no regurgitate the propoganda tha comes from across the border….
I love Pakistan, and I pray, hope, dream and what not for a peaceful Pakistan that is able to take care of its people.
I hope and pray for a Pakistan where its people understand what is right for them and, therefore, for Pakistan.
I hope and pray for a Pakistan whose objective is to ensure the betterment of its masses, and not the ego of a select few.
If that makes me a traitor, then so be it.
I am proud of what I feel and what I say to express that feeling.
Calm down Dr Sb, clam down
AHA — don’t worry — people like you are THE future of Pakistan — and the future of Pakistan is NOT its past nor the present of Pakistan — you are a true patriot — because you are not in denial.
I am a common Indian citizen like any other in pakistan, trying to make a better life for my kids than what thankfully my parents provided me and I don’t have any thing for or against a common pakistani. In other words “I don’t care if you guys live or die”, a feeling most certainly and widely reciprocated from your side. I feel like kicking all the ‘Aman ki Aasha” peaceniks when they refer want us the mango citizen from india to jump up in joy when ever they mention the good intentions of citizents on both sides of the border. Come onnn, who are you kidding? this is the same common pakistani citizen who couldn’t care any less when the Indian parliament was attacked by their agencies, couldn’t care any less when their common brotheren trained by agenies landed in Mumbai and created the mayhem. Let me put it blunt – Peace has nothing to do with the common man on both sides and what they want, I don’t think its even anywhere near the top priorities of the common man in both countries. India and Pakistan will never have peace till the time Pak army/ISI calls the shots across the border. Come onnn, It will be suicidal for that institution. Without India as the enemy across the border, how can they justify their share in national budget and the corresponding privileges (corner plots for the brigadier and generals). So its only if they keep working on and make their “Strategic Depth” (read terrorist) work that they will be able to keep peace away and keep those corner plots and bungalows running. In short its the “Business of hostility” that brings continued returns for the pak army, which is threatened by the peace process.Given the ground reality, the civillian govt in pakistan is unable to stop this “business of hostility”. So how do we workaround this Evil Business Empire which will not let peace to happen??? There is a way. Every private business needs to make a profit or in the case of public enterprises like pak army, at least it should not make losses which are unacceptable, though it may survive with acceptable loses. So the equation is very simple – Profit/loss = Revenue-Cost. The only way we can shutdown this business is to make the “Cost” and the corresponding “loss” very very very high and UNACCEPTABLE for the “Pak Army”(need not be for the pak civilians) in terms of its equipment and installations. And to do that there will be a “Cost” to be paid by Indian Army and people of India. Cost/Sacrifices in terms of loss of life, our economic growth for a short period etc. We are incurring that cost already, but spreading over 6 decades and countless life across our western border and at one point of time at our eastern border also. Lets make this INVESTMENT in BLOOD and materials (I will not dare put this as “cost”) in one installment and make PEACE happen. This is the one and only way and the day is not far that once “Maun”Mohan Singh and Italian National Congress will be swept aside soon and the new Indian Govt and Army will reach this conclusion. Once that happens, PEACE will follow…
You are welcome.
Peace would help both countries and create favourable conditions for economic development. But the people who control Pakistan are neither intrested in peace nor development. They are intrested in playing big geo-political games, grand strategic alliances involving superpowers, creating proxies to control Afganistan and even India, be a leader of Mulsim world, carrying nuclear weapons on their sleeve. I have no doubt in my mind that there exist a peace constituency within Pakistan but it is helpless.
In my lifetime, I have seen Mr Vajpayee going to Lahore by Bus and signing a landmark, Lahore declaration agreement with Mr Nawaz Shrief. Can any Pakistani explain to me where was the need to intrude into Kargil ? Who jeaopardised this significant peace intiative ? When composite dialogue was going on in full swing, where was the need to launch attacks on Mumbai in Nov 2008 ? How much tolerance you want India to show ? It is only reacting with all the restraint. But Pakistanis fail to appreciate. Even today India’s demand is very reasonable that please punish the masterminds of 26/11. But what is the result ??? Insincerity. So the problem lies at Pakistan’s end.
I guess a lot of Pakistanis residing in the area near India border like Islamabad Karachi, Hyderabad, Lahore have relatives in India (which makes half of Pakistan). The other half of Pakistanis near Iran border dont consider themselves Pakistanis. So it is in the interest of Pakistan to have friendly relation with India, to serve its own citizens who want to part of pakistan.
For india, the population of Indians with relatives in pak is near zero % with respect to the total population of India
now you decide for yourself who is need of india-pak friendship. If you think it is pak, then exterminate all terrorist. if you cant do it allow UN or nato to do it. Unless otherwise army is in control of govt and there no no terrorist coming from across there cannot be friendship.
Bollywood is instrumental in forming Indian public opinion. The portrayal of Pakistan and Muslims if not negative has never been positive. Does Bollywood reflect India at large.
Bollywood does double damage. On the one hand it reinforces negative opinion in India. On the other, the bootleg in Pakistan stresses that Indians do not like Muslims or Pakistan.
The people of Pakistan always have been hate-free and remain so. Even a Hindi ditti says it well “A Hindu’s rasoi and a Muslim’s heart are always spotless”. Show me one classic Bollywood movie that gives a positive view of Muslims compared with the endearing image of Hindus and Sikhs in the 1959-60 classic Kartar Singh made in Lahore?
To be fair the 1999 Indian Punjabi “Shaheed-E-Mohabbat” based on Boota Singh/Jamil Ahmed had a somewhat mature view of Pakistan if not Muslims. That is a good beginning. Perhaps Bollywood can help where the State and the Media will not. But then, will it make money?
If movies had this much impact than all the evils which are depicted in movies and represented by villian who ultimatley looses, would have vanished. Movies dont have any significant impact.
Bollywood didn’t do Kargil or 26/11 or terrorism in Punjab and Kashmir. We have repeatedly told that it is terrorism emanating from Pakistan which is spoiling the relationship. Forget about movies and come to reality.
Abbastoronto: I’ve seen this so-called “Hindi ditty” being bandied about in Dawn’s comment space time and again, most probably by you, since you are a prolific commentator here, responding with your unique brand of logic and conspiracy theories. I’ve spent most of my 37 odd years in India, and lived and worked in various parts of northern and southern India. And NEVER have I heard this preposterous “ditty” from anyone, even those whose native tongue is Hindi. Please, you’re not on a Canadian blog’s forum. These are Indians and Pakistanis you’re conversing with. I’d suggest that you avoid trying to fool native Indians about their own language with some figment of your imagination.
Ip: Greetings
I have explained the origin of this ditty in an earlier post. Your repeat objection is politically motivated.
Rather than fight about its existence or not, think about its validity. It makes sense to me, and more so when I read comments on this board from Indians and Pakistanis.
Best wishes
The famous stars in Bollywood are muslims starting from Yusuf khan to salman khan. And please bollywood may hate pakistan but it doesn’t hate muslims.
Pakistan was the worst thing that happened to Islam. may allah give you wisdom, you left your own country to settle in Canada
AS: AOA
So what? Weak argument my friend.
All the great sportsmen in US are Black, and all make millions. That is the only job an uneducated person can get – play, or act. But for every 1 making million, a million are on the dole.
The plethora of Muslims in Bollywood shows Muslim poverty, not strength.
The Bollywood of 1940 had even a higher proportion of Muslims. Almost all the actresses – Nargis, Madhubala, Meena Kumari, Shyama, Waheeda Rahman, Nimmi, etc. etc were Muslim (not to speak of Noor Jehan who came to Pakistan and became a producer/director). That is the only profession they could practice. Lollywood is in dumps because women in Pakistan are now doctors, engineers, pilots, politician, correspondents, diplomats, lawmakers, columnists.
A personal example. My mother and her brother were only two siblings in family. She left all her lands to him (considerable, almost half a village) and came penniless to Pakistan. I remember my childhood with only 1 dress that we washed and wore. Today, we have 14 university degrees among us 6 siblings, and they in India only 3 among all 12 of them. 3 of us are in north America, and 3 in Pakistan. And Pakistan has given us so much that each of us is wealthier than 12 of them put together.
Thank you Allah. Thank you mother and father. Thank you Pakistan.
Best wishes
This is the weakest argument ever. All are muslim boys and girls are going to school in Pakistan? Are all Muslims rich and happy and living happily in Pakistan? Do all of them have equal opportunity there? How many hindus are left in Pakistan and how many of them are in high posts in Pakistan? Are they allowed to become a PM or President in Pakistan ? Is there any non Muslim holding even a ministry in Pakistan?Have you thought may be your siblings were not intelligent enough to become a doctor or engineer due to such a tough competition in India?
Dear Faiza
Why can,t we be good neighbours, like germany and russia
Germany and Russia?
We will need 2 world wars and 40 years of a very hot ‘cold’ war to get there.
I cannot afford that. Can you???
yeah one atom bomb on both sides will do it.. like usa and japan are now best friends , they were rivals before …remember pearl harbor & hiroshima nagasaki…
Russians and Germans were friends only after millions of germans/russians lost their lives during nazi regime and World war 2
You still want more wars. Let’s start this thread for some warm discussion as a Pakistani and Indian to spread more hate, venom, blame game etc etc.
We have to change ourselves otherwise your wish will definitely fullfill.
AHA put it well. Germany and Russia lost over 70 million among themselves in 31 years (1914-45) for a combined population of 200 million.
It will be silly for Pakistan and India to kill 400 million of their own to have this kind of peace.
In all fairness to the Germans, many of the Russians who died were murdered by the purges of Stalin.
There is no common border between germany and russia. please refer to the european map before comenting. Example should have been germany and france, who share a hostile past, ut now they are friendly neighbours.
No common border yes.
But then no one cared about the sovereignty of Poland in those days. Poland was the freeway for the European armies from various countries.
Haa Haaa…. Have you ever heard of war crime of Russian Army they raped every Berlin Woman from 8 to 80 during world war 2
The solution is very simple in my opinion : Please solve the core issue of Kashmir and Siachen by giving them to their rightful owners ,i.e. to Pakistan. Let Hyderabad seperate and be a muslim majority state in itself or they can merge with Pakistan as was the wish of the then Nizam. Also, options of autonomy to muslim majority areas in UP, Bihar and West Bengal. Above all, please disarm and dismantle Indian army. Inshaallah, then there’ll be aman..
Is there peace in the ‘all muslim’ world of middle east. Now do not start blaming the west for the disturbances there.
Dream onnn baby…
more solutions:
1- make Baluchistan independent
2- make north Waziristan and northern area and hand over power to the tribal peoples.
3- burn down karachi to stop target killing
4- declare Sindh hindu state.
5- kill all the people you hate using blasphemy law.
Predictable Indian response. As you fully know, there are NO outstanding UN resolutions on any of the issues you have pointed to. Resolution for Kashmir plebiscite is one of the earliest resolutions passed by Security Council. India’s refusal to honour that has kept one fifth of humanity so backward and perpetually hostile.
What you had been smoking off late, Imran ? Anyway thankyou for not giving a simple solution under which of all Indians, infact, the whole world, convert to Islam (But I wonder which one ???) so that there will be aman…
“Sweet dreams are made of these” song by Annie Lennox comes to mind. Wao! – A wish list of territories. Even Mr Jinnah never made such comprehensive demand of British. See, if you do not fritter away what Mr Jinnah bequeathed you.
As an Indian, I agree totally with your solution. Just one more addendum, the whole new area will continue to be called “India”. Keep Day Dreaming. We Indians have learnt about the diabolical back stabbing nature of pakistan army. Pakistan is an Army with a State. Very soon, you will reap all the seeds that your military establishment has sown.
And also separate Baluchistan and Sindh from Pakistan and then there will be surly peace in Pakistan
And let’s get those Bangladeshis and properly make them a part of Pakistan. And while we are it, lets invite the Mughals to run the country again. Then all will be well again.
LOL. The moon will be blue and pigs will fly and hell will freeze over before that happens.
i agree with mohammad but just change rather than we giving u siachin and kashmir you take it as real men front to front fight if u like ,also hyderabad come and visit hyderabad and u will know …nizam flew his place as a coward…also whatever muslims are in india are indians first so stop dreaming about them ……..its as much land of them as much as anyone and plz let theindian army disarm but only one one condition that all weapons be fired upon pakistan …….jai shree ram there will be peace no in the region but whole world as pakistan is the cause of terrorism in whole world …jai sri raam
We should see from the desires of the indians that their hatred is very deep rooted and nothing to do with kargil or LOC issues. It is a Hindu hatred against Islam and thousand years of Muslim rule (which made india into a power from a backward group of rajs) . they are against the concept of Pakistan as they see it a continuation of Muslim rule. they will not rest until the name Pakistan is wiped off the map.The rest is just excuses for their own hatred.
The likes and dislikes really show that the readers are overwhelmingly indian
Let me give you an alternate one. How about Balochistan being a free nation and so is Sindh since they have had enough of “Punjabis” dictating the terms and sucking the resources from all over. The Pakhtoons from KP joining their brothers across from that false border “durand line” and make Pakhtoonistan as they always wanted. Then it will only be west Punjab which would remain “Pakistan” and then you won’t really need an army because India would just need few dams to take care of it. Like that??
Another apologistic article on Pakistani media, against the jingoism infesting Indian media, politicians, and actors, in the middle of newly found patriotism and urge for a villain.
Firstly, India just refused all type of investigation on the issues, where Pakistani side blamed them killing one Paklistani soldier, and than Pakistan denies the killing ‘beheading’ of indian soldier.
So, let them enjoy their war of path.
Pakistani economy has minimum reliance on Indian economy, and Indians would need access to Afghanistan and Central Asia today or tomorrow, and their big dad American would not allow them to get through Iran (like gas pipeline), so let’s wait untill this revenge mantra wilts down back to co-operation and usual breakfast in Amrritsat, Lunch in Islamabad, and dinner in Kabul
what !!! Pakistan economy has minimum reliance on indian economy???
Waseem Sahib: AOA
Right on.
1. Before any nation thrust itself on the world stage it took care of its neighbourhood first.
England triumphed in Europe (1815) before building its Asian/African Empire. America first made the Americas off-bound for others (1825 Monroe Doctrine) and then its North (Canada) and South (Mexico) and then became a world power. Russia became the Soviet Union only after neutralizing threat from its many neighbours. China routed first America in Korea then in Viet-Nam, and India too, before assuming its place on the world stage. Iran has global ambitions only because it is the only country in Asia that has no enemies any more (thanks to the Americans) on its borders.
India is walled in the north by Himalayas, on the West by Pakistan, and in the East by China. Only the south is open for unchecked expansion and that is water. Not a good basis for trade and rapid growth.
As far as its rivalry with Pakistan, India is also handicapped.
2. Globalization and Free trade favours Pakistan since Islam is a trading faith, and Hinduism is agrarian. In Trade, Pakistan can expand both to West Asia and Central Asia as well as China unchecked.
3. As you very well put, India’s passage to growth is through Pakistan – the energy for its industry.
Peace is good for Pakistan, but a must for India. It must have begun dawning on Indian policy makers that just like America, Pakistan can be destroyed (nukes, flattened), but never occupied. There are too many guns in private hands, so Pakistan does not really need an Army in modern times to defend itself. And that may be the best reason for Pakistan to be flexible and for India to sue for peace now.
But for peace Kashmir must be faced. The best solution is for Pakistan and India to free Kashmir, make it an independent state, and then form a federation like the European Union – a USAR – Union of South Asian Republics consisting of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Kashmir, Nepal, Bhutan.
Then your breakfast in Amritsar, Lunch in Islamabad, and dinner in Kabul will indeed be a reality. But which Indian Leader will bell the cat of Kashmir?
“Islam is a trading faith, and Hinduism is agrarian.”
Please check the list of world billionnaires. How many of them are hindus and muslims. Most of muslims owe their wealth to crude oil.
apologistic article and a sane article has difference probably u are mentally incapable to judge it and thats why u are not writer of dawn as she is ….india refused investigation bcoz pakistan asked for investigation after giveing clean chit to itself so there was already a judgemnt given ….so hypocrisy as always …..and we will love to die and walk on the path of war if it is imposed on us in the cowardly manner lke pakistan does in form of petty terrorists bcoz it does not have guts to take on from front ……and energy resources if anyone forgets is lot more than what he is dreaming of pipeline …..first think how will u pay billions of dollars abck …once us is going back u will not be able to balckmail it anytime soon and then see what comes out …..
keep making excuses
Ah so US is not the big daddy of Pakistan now?? Oh i know i know you just found out that real daddy is China.
And it’s fast becoming india’s daddy because it’s carying a big stick this time around.
To understand India/Pakistan relations, there are some theoretical factors.
1. The strong are calm, the weak emotional. Pakistan reaction to India provocation is always measured, Indian always emotional. Strength is not measured by nukes or armies, but by our outlook towards reality around us.
2. Hinduism is a religion of agrarian era stressing the Family. Islam is a religion of trade, based on the Individual. “No one shall carry the burden of another”. Whether it is Tariq bin Ziyad in Spain burning the ships, or Kasab blowing up a hotel in Bombay, Muslims like to take initiative on their own. Indian abhor individual initiative and decision must be collective. Therefore, when provocation is from India, Pakistanis look for the individual culprit to mete out justice. When provocation is from Pakistanis, India knee jerks to punish entire Pakistan.
3. That is why India is a Democracy stressing societal peace. Pakistan is a Republic valuing individual freedom. The price of freedom is peace. Venus and Mars do not align.
4. Hitherto the world was agrarian, so Islam was sub-optimal and Christianity/Hinduism natural. But as we enter Globalization and Free Trade, Islam is becoming the natural religion of the age. Our Prophet AS was a businessman trader, and the terminology of Quran and its laws are commercial – personal accountability, ledger and balance of good and bad deeds, spiritual profit and loss, contracts. Muslims are becoming like fish in water, and will strengthen further fortifying individualism. Indians will find their religion and scriptures wanting. Unless Indians abandon caste Hinduism and become at least secular and egalitarian, or come in the American camp as is Pakistan, the gap will widen. If resurgence of Hinduism in India speeds up expect them to become un-tuned to the world around them and weaker.
Interesting times lie ahead.
There is big problem with media all around the world. They only show others miseries which is not the reflection of the society in general. By and large educated and middle class families dont make headlines, doesn’t mean they dont exist. Some cast based incident in the village in Bihar UP or Jarkhand doesn’t represent mindset of India. One incident in Gujarat in the 65 year long history of India doesnt represent mindset of India in general. If we make news on a daily basis then there is indeed a problem, the problem is sever if we make international news on daily basis.
I repeatedly see discussion on cast and religion when their is discussion about India. All i want to say is, In India if you discuss about your religion or cast in public or even to your friend, then you will be considered indecent and hardliner. Your company will not be liked any more.
Your education and knowledge is pathetic. If you have good education you will not speak 200% with 2% knowledge on something. To learn something right you have to first unlearn it, which is more difficult than learning. I wish Pakistan corrects is education system. I sympathies the educated citizens of Pak. They dont even realize what is fact and what is distortion.
No need to over analyse the relation between the twins.
It all is rooted in partition; when the great philosopher, the great social engineer, the great political scientist, the great lawyer and the greatest warrior of Islam proclaimed that Muslims and Hindus in undivided India are two different nations and they can’t live together in one country. Since then it left a permanent scar of injury on Indian (mostly Hindus) psyche and a
sense of triumph among the Pakistanis (entirely Muslims).
Please don’t take it personally, but once the Saudi oil runs out in a hundred years, Islam will fade away into oblivion. Unless it reforms and modernizes itself. Please read the writing on the wall.
LOL
What has Saudi oil to do with Islam?
What has a country whose name is based on a Tribe (of Saud) has to do with a religion that obliterated Tribalism?
In fact exactly when the oil runs out that Islam becomes relevant.
Islam is a religion conceived in land-poor, water-poor, resource-poor advanced trading society of Arabia.
When Islam was brought to less developed agrarian societies of Egypt, Europe, India, it had to adapt backward, and was sub-optimal. With globalization and free trade Muslims are again becoming like fish in water as our Prophet was a businessman trader, and he compiled a manual for the trading era, and that is called the Quran. Read it, and you will learn how to succeed in the coming world.
Saudi oil was discovered only 50 years ago, Islam has been around for 1400 years. When will we hear a reasonable argument from an indian instead of pure mindless hatred.
Dear Sir, What is your real name? Hamid Gul? Hafiz Sayyed? Zawahiri? Illyas Kashmiri? M. Zaid? Aurangjeb? ….
So far in the last 67 years your Pakistan – a nuclear power, leader of ummah, 180 million true muslims etc. can not even get a brick from Jinnah house in mumbai? forget getting a mile of Kashmir. What you 180 million Papistani can get is hew heads to prove your bravery! This is also because Indian politicians got 18 million heads to spend and these life’s are very cheap. Just a warning from army chief Pakistan runs to UNSC! We all see what UNSC and UN capable in Syria and Libiya! May be you forgot mention few more things in your wish list you want from India i.e. Taj Mahal, Qutub Minar and Char Minar! How about grave of Galib and Humayoon?
I think right now India has enough money to build pipeline with Iran under the sea. Of course it will be expensive but if no other choice, India will go for it. That takes care of dependency over Pakistan. Iran has agreed to build its own share of rail track to go to central Asia. India might even help Iran to build that. Once that is in place, India will by pass Pakistan completely to go to Europe and Central Asia. Even if US try to push India, India may negotiate a better oil deal from Saudis playing the Iran card with US. In any case, India will take care of its energy needs for few coming years. The nuclear deals with western countries is on the way and they way things are going on India will have few more nuclear reactors in coming years, despite having some local issues against them. India does not necessarily need Pakistan
The alternatives costs more.
The difference between 7% and 6% growth over 65 years is 2:1 compounded.
1. Of course the strongs are the calm ones which proves why India still does not wage a war with Pakistan despite many provocation. Who is strong, has been proved in past wars so no need to get into the details.
2. The trading nature is not something which comes from a religion. Arabs were traders long before Islam. Its not by choice that they are traders or Islam has no role into it, they had no options. They did not have anything to grow in the sand so trading was the only option for them. Yet again, Islam had no role.
3. Yes, most Indians give importance to family over individuality but this also give them a sense of bond with others and that is why it is easier for Indians to adapt and get along well when in foreign land and foreign culture unlike the Muslims who find it very hard to adjust in foreign countries except in middle east.
4. May be you would like to ask millions of Pakistanis now if they would prefer peace over freedom or otherwise. Right now, they are neither free nor peaceful. The minorities are almost extinct and we all know how free other Islamic sects are other than sunnis. And if peace and freedom were so mutually exclusive, Europe would have been hell by now. So may be Pakistan is a special case where normal logics don’t work anymore.
5. Had it not been the Hindu religion in India, it would have been doing worse considering the so much diversities. It is the tolerance of Hindu religion which has allowed the growth of other religion while in Pakistan the Islamists are fighting over the superiority of sects.
6. All Pakistanis are blaming US for the situation in their country and cursing the leaders why they had to join the US camp in first place.
This is just an alternate perspective.
“Pakistan is a Republic valuing individual freedom.” Do you remember Malala?
“The price of freedom is peace.” , what a peace in Pakistan!!!!!!Everyday bombing, Karachi killing???Most favorable state for all the terrorist….Labelled as Terrorist country throughout the world….wow what a peaceful country Pakistan is!!!!!!!!!! Solid contribution through out the world…
O I see ! So Pakistan is in the American camp? That must’ve happened before the American ‘Infidels’ cleaned up 24 of your Official Assets in Salala other than the hundreds unofficial ones killed by drones everyday. Who you fooling by the way, you may still go back to the land you so long to be in; At least you will be at peace with your brothers and Jihad with them in person! You’re a clown!
@Faiza
I am neither a North Indian nor possess any religious ground to blame the neighboring country . Hatred for Pakistanis among Indians are buried deep in the History of subcontinent and it’s obvious. We have some other neighboring countries culturally very very different from us,some are similar to us , but certainly don’t possess any hatred for them . We both countries view two different personalities as our ideologies which can’t stay together and personally I can’t even accept that . In school days , I had read something like this “you can’t make friendship with someone by doing harm to him”. But still if you think Education is the only key to bring these countries closer , then you are wrong .I would have been happy if you had asked your question of “similarity of blood” to your forefathers . We can certainly heal our wounds , but the scars remind us our past .
My friend it looks like you have lost a dear one either in Mumbai attacks or on the border with Pakistan. Thats probably why education has failed to eradicate your hatred.
anil ji: Namaste
It is not about the past, it is about the future.
Pakistan and Pakistanis have always been ahead of India in terms of looking to the future. Today, Pakistan is undergoing a necessary civil war to transition from rural/agrarian to urban/industrial era and to align itself for the coming era of Globalization and Free Trade. We will arrive at a new social contract once it is over. In England, France, America, Russia, China, there was much bloodshed. These fundamental matters are never resolved by ballots but by bullets.
India is not aware of the problem it will face, let alone the solutions at hand. Pakistanis do not look at “the scars of the past”. We do not hold grudges. From your post it looks like Indians are still sulking over what happened 65 years ago or 2 years ago. Such attitude consumes internal energy and prevents progress.
Best wishes
@Abbastoronto
I love your theory of the agrarian religion vs trader religion. It amuses me!
I don’t agree with your theory at all, but I’ll respect your right to have an opinion.
However, the tone of your comments give me the idea that you feel the agrarian system is somehow inferior to the trader model. Well a little reasoning, ( I am sure an erudite man like you, who can enfilade fabulous theories, is very much capable of some rational thinking), will make it clear to you that no society in any era can live without food.
So your theory implies that Hinduism, by virtue of being an agrarian religion (I disagree completely, because the basis of Hinduism is very diverse, just like any other religion) will always be important, because humans cannot live without food!
And this I say from common sense and I am aware that I am no expert on Hinduism or any religion for that matter. Besides I am an atheist, who respects all religions and the right to have a belief (or the lack of it). I feel all religions have something to teach us, if we have an open mind and a pure heart. Although it is only my belief that there is no God, I am confident that even if there is one, on the judgement day, I will come out a clean man, because I have a clear conscience. I’m certainly not afraid of God. Agrarian or Trader!
Good Luck to you.
May peace prevail!
Rakesh ji: Namaste
I never claimed of implied that agrarian era is inferior to trading one.
However, it is a fact that agrarian era precedes the trading one.
Religions are simply socio-economic systems that respond efficiently to the Primal Question of Existence – Survival, Growth, and Evolution.
Each religion is tied to its own economic era. Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Confucianism, are tied to the agrarian age, while Hellenism and Islam are linked to the Trading era (both Athens and Mecca were trading centres).
Best wishes
@Abbastoronto:
Thanks for your wishes and I wish you well too.
You are oblivious to the fact that centuries ago Chanakya wrote Arthashastra, a treatise on economic policy, administration and strategy. And that is only one part of Indian (not only Hindu) heritage. Hinduism has also contributed immensely to the field of Astro-physics, medicine, mathematics, chemistry and many other sciences which are essential for societies to develop. By the way, many including me, believe that Hinduism is not a religion in the traditional sense, but a way of life. It is inherently secular.
Religions are essentially a way of life and an individual has the right to choose his/her path, In India, the constitution awards each citizen the right to choose his/her religion and guarantees that people of all faiths shall be treated equally. So I fail to understand how you claim that India stresses on the family honour rather than on individual freedoms.
Perhaps someday you should visit my country to see for yourself the beauty of our diversity.
I am sure we will look after you well, because most of swear by “Athidhi-Devo-Bhava”, which translates to “Let the guest be your God”, just as “Namaste” roughly means “I salute the God in You”
Wishing you all the best
Rakesh
The reason for the civil wars in all those countries you mentioned are so very different than what is happening in Pakistan. The massacre in Pakistan is going on is not for the welfare of the people but in the name of religion which would leave Pakistani society all bashed up. Its a power struggle between political elite, controlling army and Islamic terrorists. All bad for Pakistan. If political elitists win, they will keep plundering the people like they do now. If army wins, it will keep Pakistan as a security state rather than making it an economic power and if Islamic terrorists win, well then they will take Pakistan to 1400 years back. Who so ever wins in this battle, the real losers will be the Pakistani people. Also, one often needs to look at the past to chose the right path in future. There is a reason history is taught and wise ones make the best of it.
@abbadtoronto: Salam
“Pakistan and Pakistanis have always been ahead of India in terms of looking to the future”,
you should have read article by Mrutaza Haider in Dawn about Indian Vs Pakistanis in your country Canada as well as US…All your concepts (mis) will be clear soon…
I agree with the central theme of this article. It is unfortunate that the innocents have to pay the price for the activities of the few.
I disagree with the statement that ‘north Indians believe that all Pakistani’s are terrorists’. I would ask where the Shiv Sena and RSS are most prevalent? As a Punjabi I can say with absolute certainty that the vast majority of Punjabis and Sikh Punjabis do not think that all Pakistanis are terrorists.
Ksmat, thanks for saying that. Don’t forget, we Pakistanis have not forgotten your pain, and after Kashmir, we’ll ensure that the sikhs get their rightful Khalistan inshaallah.
Imran Bhai, For the moment forget Khalistan or even Kashmir. Try to preserve what Jinna sahib had got for you guys. You guys have fretted away half of it already (and Bengalis are soooo thankful to you even now after 32 years)and once uncle sam takes-off from Kabul, May allah be with you guys. What will emerge from that god forsaken place called Afghanistan is anybodys guess, Continue to believe and support people like Hamid Gul, instead of Pakistan you will have a few god knows … Dont worry about us across the border, we will some how manage without your help and rest assured we will take good care of the land and people across the border. Aap jaake itminan se apna ghar (or what ever is left of it) sambhaliye…Khuda hafis…
Dear Faiza, thanks for such a thoughtful article but let us all remember one thing – our action speaks louder than our words. You may be correct that most pakistanis are not anti-india but whats the use of that sentiment? The same pakistani society is fastly slipping towards extremism, corruption, nepotism and worst- has no interest in their national interest. the way pakistani society is supporting terrorists organisation, extremists in the name of religion and actively taking part in them, despite knowing the fact that it is ultimately damaging the society itself, led us to think that it is self-destructing society. So what to think and expect of that society which has no respect for themselves, their own culture and their own country? how could they help us in our endeavour to bring peace in the region when they themselves are not interested to bring peace in their own country and society? The current and past actions of pakistani society forced us to think and forged the thinking that we are own our own and we have to fight this fight ourselves and no pakistani will ever fight against and oppose the wrong doing against us by them as we have seen the response towards mumbai attacks etc in pakistan. Peace is necessary but it should be like the one in garden rather the one in cemetery !! I don’t want to blame anybody but will repeat again “Your action speaks louder than your words”
Please get off the horse of your high moral horse and self-reflect on your own treatment of people of Kashmir, Gujrat and general discrimination of various low castes of Indians. Same goes for Pakistani’s, please look at general tolerance of even different sects of Muslims in our society before complaining of atrocities of Indians in Kashmir. It would be be better that both nations correct their own intolerance and dicrimationation of their own people before look to the other nation for extra-ordinary civility. Clearly majority of peace loving people of both nations are silent and letting minority of exteremist letting the politicians/army push their agenda. No nation or individual is perfect and never will be. Great nations look beoyond short comings and seek heigher goals. For the sielent majority, even if you add your voice in correcting someone like the dkg, you would bring about change in the mindset of the few.
BTW: great article by Faiza.. Congrats
all you salwaar walker are funny,,country is side by side with somalia or worse
Your high a mightly attitude is emblematic of the very problem from the Indian side. While educated Pakistanis are willing to be objective and work for peace, realizing that their own leaders are many times at fault, people like you in India consider your country to be without fault and are not wiling to entertain for even a second that what you are hear from your politicians and media may not entirely be correct either. This narrative that India is completely innocent and that it has been on the receiving end for the past 65 years of all the evil machinations of Pakistan and Pakistanis is nothing short of naive, even absurd. Please wake up and smell the coffee for a change! Let’s not allow these elements to take away from us what could be a great future for the peoples of both the countries.
Love and Peace from across the border.
Nice article..
Dear faiza,
Thanks a lot for writing such a good article. If PPakistan army desires the peace can be achieved in a day. Let there be some real patriot general who could do that.
It takes two hand to clap…!
I think one is enough for a slap
!!
It takes one hand to give you the claps (disease)
Every one loves peace,trade which makes economies strong. But brutal behaviour of Pakistanis barbaric act pressurised and exploited the sentiments of Indians. Pakistani army hidden agenda is no peace because there religious parties do not support them for this.
And what about you Indians hidden agenda , han ? Come on be prudent and rational. When you point finger towards other the remaining four turns towards you. Who sent back Pakistani hockey players ? Who is threatening Pakistani women cricket team ? Why don’t India take action against them. If they can’t bear our players, who are like ambassadors then how could they accept peace talk ? Be brave and also accept your side faults to.
Junaid, the very existence of Army on both sides and perhaps more so in Pakistan is based upon creating war hysteria against India. Have you ever pondered how much money is diverted to Pak Army and why it continues to meddle in politics of the country?
What is behind your rants?I it the dis illusion with the state of affairs in your country?You expect Indians to garland and greet Pak players when Indian soldiers are brutally beheaded and more pathetically outright denial by Pak.That too hours after hosting Pak cricket team.You call those protesting against Pak players as terrorists then what you call hafeez saeed,salahuddin??Finally Pak is the only which accuses India of hidden agenda in every thing.May be it is part of your policy which you expect in others but certainly not ours.Hope dawn is forthright to publish my comment as it one of the few sane voice remaining in Pakistan.
It matters who started first. Who attacked J&K and blamed on tribal? Who started war in 1965? Who did not make the person PM even after getting majority in the parliament, just because he was Bengali? Who attacked India in 1999? Whose citizen attacked Indian parliament. Whose citizen attacked Mumbai in 2008? Whose citizen or army showed barbaric behavior? I do not know how true is the news that Elyas Kashmir president the head of Indian soldier to Musharraf, and he gave him 1,00,000 as awards. One reported asked Musharraf about this recently, he just said no discussion about Kashmir, he did not categorically deny the incident. Pakistan never accepted that their government is involved in terrorism. But they told that they have stopped supporting after 2004. Does this not mean that they have accepted the fact that they were supporting terrorism before.
We are also no saint. We attacked Siachen. We intervened in East Bengal after millions (I do not know how many million, as the figures vary a lot) of refugee came to India.
It might the agenda of Pak army to get hold of the power in Pak. There has been some sign that top official (Army and government) of Pak are not supporting terrorism now. But some unofficial people, and retried ISI officer are still supporting terrorism. There is a hope that if Pak civilian government get the power, they might stop the use of Pak soil to grow terrorist
against India.
You forgot to mention that we also sent back Pak business man back. If there is barbaric behavior on the border either by Pak army or Pak millitant, the relationship can not be normal. If bravery means barbaric behavior, Indian would rather like not be brave.
Read sources from Pak side if you can not depend wikipedia on 1971. India did not start that war too. Mr Bhutto came to claim back the lost land and captured army. The biggest regret is that India slips into brotherly love after every stab in the back.
They were just sent back. They were not killed or beheaded.
talking about socities, slipping of Indians towards jingoism and extreme ideas are more obvious.
you can imagine the indian shouting with faoming mouths when they discuss anything about Pakistan and Islam.
I really enjoy their mental unabalance
I see this jingoism & charged atmosphere at the muslim sermons. I pity the inorant people.
The day there is a long march in Pakistan against the Mumbai attack or beheading of Indian soldiers, I will believe we can be friends! There is no point in blaming the politicians for the hatred between our countries! Rest is all wishful thinking!
There was a protest in Pakistan against Mumbai attack but the Indian media, true to its nature, went into overdrive in spitting venom against all Pakistanis and calling for war when Pakistanis too were shocked with this terrorist attack.
Protest is a international news when the gathering has atleast 1000 people
Dear G.A.,
Could you point to some source regarding the protest against Mumbai attack?
I have seen many protest against India.
Please look at reaction of your Pakistani media at the time of Mumbai attack. The media and your peanut think tanks (Lal Topi) were all busy putting theory of attack on Indians themselve.
Would like to see a pointer to a prominent Pakistani newspaper carrying this protest in their front page. I read Dawn daily and do not recollect seeing this. Please send the link if it exists
The day there is a long march in india against attrocities in Kashmir, killing of Pakistani soldier across LOC, shootign down of Pakistan navy plane from across teh border, killing 22, against occupation of Siachen where my own cousing= was killed by indians We will start to believe that there is hope and not just hatred oozing from across the border
We don’t want any nautanki of friendship but we are not interested in enmity. We are happy with our success and worried for our own problem. Please don’t bother us…Please be happy with your own world…
There were nationwide protests to denounce a US bounty on Hafeez Saeed, a strategic asset of Pakistan
Any sensible Indian or Pakistani will agree to Fazia. We (Peace loving Indian and Pakistani) are already in Majority, but We need to convert people who are violent or with hatred in their heart to peace loving. Insallah, this will become an realty.
Unfortunately for Pakistan, the violent section of its people is the most dominant.
Rajesh I’m not so sure that peace lovers are the majority. These columns are a good cross-section of our societies and i think you can get a pretty good idea that the majority do not want peace or friendship.
Having unfriendly relations with India suits the Pakistani army. The army would need justification for eating up most of the Pakistani budget if we have friendly relations between India and Pakistan. Politicians in Pakistan are mere puppets, they hardly have any say when it comes to relations with India.
Let their people eat grass, as long as they have no objection, Indians have no right to advise otherwise.
Pakistan was born out of hatred, and they will die of hatred.
Dream on.
So true, unfortunately.
The reality is that that our ideology is founded on the principle of hatred.
No use talking to Pak civilians as finally the Army decides everything & most Jihadis do the killings to go to heaven to enjoy life which is well known –alex
@Fazia – there is a misplaced sense of patriotism, one-upmanship and history. Add 2 it religious sentiments AND MOST IMPORTANTLY Politicians, who aggravate the situation. Solution is EDUCATION, EDUCATION and some more of right EDUCATION.