India the architect of their own downfall: De Villiers
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Former South Africa fast bowler Fanie De Villiers says India have shot themselves in the foot by allowing foreign players to get acclimatised to its conditions through the Indian Premier League (IPL) and were no longer a big threat at home.
South Africa clinched the three-match T20 series 2-0 and won the ODI round 3-2 after match-winning performances by several of its stars who feature in the IPL.
And De Villiers feels India have been the “architect of their own downfall.”
“Our players are used to Indian conditions and India have been their own architect of this result by having overseas players getting used to the Indian conditions [through IPL],” De Villiers told The Times of India.
The 51-year-old pacer, who represented South Africa in 18 Tests and 83 ODIs, is of the view that subcontinent conditions were no longer as threatening as they used to be in the past.
“In the past, we haven't lost against India, we have lost against the conditions. India aren't good overseas, they are only good in their own conditions. They are basically the architect of their own downfall because you have created the scenario [IPL] where our players can play in your conditions.”
Before the on-going tour, South Africa had never won an ODI series in India. And De Villiers feels, the Test series is going to be tougher for India than before.
“Even Test cricket-wise, South Africa are going to be more competitive than in the past. For the last 15 years, we have played in so many series but couldn't beat India because we struggled against the conditions. There's this big difference between losing against India and losing against conditions. This will be an even tougher series for India,” he reckoned.
India and South Africa will take on each other in four Tests starting November 5.
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On DawnNews
Comments (60) Closed
Nov 02, 2015 07:39pm
India lost because of wrong team selection and strange decision making. Getting used to conditions plays some part, but it has upsides also. We get to know their weak points too. Also foreign players rubbing shoulders with Indian youngsters certainly has its effect.
Fannie has been my most favorite fast bowler. But I don't completely agree with him on this.
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Nov 02, 2015 07:42pm
Spot on!!!
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Nov 02, 2015 07:49pm
@Sujeet
Yes, Indian cricketers did benefit, but in terms of a wide spectrum of local cricketers getting exposed to quality overseas players. This will have long term benefit in terms of raising the level of cricket across the board. That may not necessarily help in terms of reaching the pinnacle. However ABDV is correct because Indians do not analyze scientifically and learn from their cricket experience as well as these other countries seem to do. We tend to go by our gut feel, which also means we do not keep an open mind.
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Nov 02, 2015 07:53pm
Fully agreed but the amount of money earned matters much for Indian cricketers.
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Nov 02, 2015 08:00pm
Excellent and astute observations by Fanie De Villiers, " India aren't good overseas, they are only good in their own conditions. They are basically the architect of their own downfall because you have created the scenario [IPL] where our players can play in your conditions.”
India has lost its edge, and now will pay a heavy price - where even the Indianized ICC can't save them.
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Nov 02, 2015 08:10pm
I don't buy De Villier's analysis. India lost because they got nervous by the South African batting. Specially De Villier's. He is dynamic and bold batsman and in the final ODI his batting clicked big time. India needed a surprise bowler against him in every next game to keep him tied.
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Nov 02, 2015 08:10pm
Its nothing but a wrong team. Every team come through bad phase, right now India is struggling because of poor bowling
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Nov 02, 2015 08:18pm
This was South Africa's first ODI Series win ever in India!
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Nov 02, 2015 08:24pm
@Lalit Turan After IPL there are no more surprise bowlers.Sometimes selection can be questioned.
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Nov 02, 2015 08:24pm
A good reply to Ravi Shastri ...
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Nov 02, 2015 08:26pm
It just goes to show earning money was more important for BCCI than welfare of Indian cricket at heart.
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Nov 02, 2015 08:35pm
During recent ODI series I felt pity on Dhoni as he had not a single bowler who could turn match in India's favour. They were helpless and hapless before De villers and the company.
IPL may have drawbacks but it has also produced talent which is available on seasonal basis. Viru and Azhar got retired because of non availability of place in the team. So IPL is big hope to new talent too.
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Nov 02, 2015 08:37pm
Indians frankly don't care as long as money is pouring in. This is what we generally hear from their fans that anyone wishing to play with india is for money. So naturally, money to them comes first before sense of honor or achievement.
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Nov 02, 2015 08:38pm
India: an over rated country of over rated cricketers.
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Nov 02, 2015 09:01pm
@Jawwad Were is the Bowler ? How can you expect to win?
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Nov 02, 2015 09:17pm
India should develop special program for bowlers especially fast pace bowler as I m sorry to quote hasn't been able to have a genuine fast bowler since decades. They should hunt for face pace bowler and give them suitable environment where they can harness their abilities to world class requirement . Reason for failure is simple : India rely too much on batsman and spinners . India never had wasim , waqar, glen mcgrath , shoaib akhtar etc because they are more interested in batsman and spinners . Fast bowling is a difficult task and it takes toll oan players body. I believe that is why most of the young cricketers from india refrain themselves from bowling fast . Also there is a lack of coaching at ground level because india never had a genuine fast bowler excluding kapil dev .
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Nov 02, 2015 09:22pm
While it is understandable that many foreign players have become "used to" Indian conditions via IPL, but DeViliers comment reeks of supreme arrogance:
“In the past, we haven't lost against India, we have lost against the conditions. India aren't good overseas, they are only good in their own conditions."
So what he is basically saying is that when India beats SA in India, SA "lost to the condition", whereas if/when SA beats India in SA, it is SA team beating Indian team, and NOT that India "lost to SA conditions". How cute!
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Nov 02, 2015 09:52pm
Goodness sake have some integrity for these sportsmen they are only humans.As for the money well let's suppose that you were offered the money that they earn would you turn it down?Please bear in mind that Int cricketers have a short career .
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Nov 02, 2015 09:59pm
he is completely wrong.England literally thrashed India a few years ago with the players who never had played IPL.How come? The reason is India don't have many match winners today.By stating like this Fannie De villiers is only trying to hide their short comings of the past South african teams.Let us see how the proteas going to tackle spinning tracks in the coming series.
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Nov 02, 2015 10:09pm
What De Villiers forgot is series was tied 2-2 going into 5th match. India lost very close first match and its best bowler for the series. Lets see how SA plays in the test series.
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Nov 02, 2015 10:45pm
I completely agree that "India the architect of their own downfall" but NOT because SA players play IPL.....The current team is not strong compared to what is was three years back... with Dhoni and the end of his career is completely out of form and is unable to win matches at crunch situations like he used to do some years back...
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Nov 02, 2015 10:47pm
"India aren't good overseas, they are only good in their own conditions."
Accept it and work to improve those skills overseas. The current Indian team is a circus. Iam Indian so don't blast me for my comments. But this is precisely the reason I wonder why would Pakistan want to play against our current team. Sorry Pakistanis but unless you show some promising bowling talent you are right in with us together in leaky boat!
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Nov 02, 2015 10:48pm
What should India do just close the gate on forgien players this is just one series Ipl is best for Indians cricket future.
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Nov 02, 2015 10:48pm
Maybe Indians thought that one-day cricket will perish with time and be replaced with "IPL" CRICKET laughs
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Nov 02, 2015 11:06pm
Indian team is just mediocre at best, a spent force.
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Nov 02, 2015 11:17pm
@anony - spent force? Average Indian team age is 27 something dude :-)
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Nov 02, 2015 11:18pm
"India aren't good overseas, they are only good in their own conditions", and truth has been spoken.
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Nov 02, 2015 11:19pm
@A common pakistani - Getting competitive is fine. Every country have their own IPL mode tournaments, but India attracts everyone and makes the most. Our bastmen are getting used to the world's best bowlers and even the fringe players are getting exposed in getting along with the starts of today's cricket...which is actually very good for indian cricket.
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Nov 02, 2015 11:44pm
India didnt loose because South Africans or other foreigners get used to Indian condition but due to poor bowling and bad team selection by India.
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Nov 03, 2015 12:13am
If South Africans are so good at mastering the conditions, why do they still carry the choker's tag? They're the world's best chokers... aren't they ? Not too long ago, India under Dhoni won the world cup in the same conditions. IPL has been around for 8 years, and SA players have been playing from the first edition, so why couldn't they win the world cup? Every cricketer talks cr*p after winning an odd series. Indian team is going through a lean patch right now. In fact every team goes through a lean patch once in a while. So one shouldn't read too much into it. For the Indian team which plays non-stop cricket for almost the whole year, its ok to lose some, as they can't carry the same level of motivation/fitness throughout the year.
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Nov 03, 2015 12:13am
And yet, it was India who reached the WC semis - and beat you people in the process. Guess it was just a Mauka Mauka.....
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Nov 03, 2015 12:14am
@itrat khaliq - Largely agree with you. We dont have Genuine quick bowlers as good as Waqar, Wasim or Shoib Akthar, but i guess your comment wont reflect the recent fast bowling reserve in India. From the last few years we have bowlers who are consistently in late 140's and sometime bowling at 150. Example - Varun Arun, Yadav etc. Its good sign, and we recently found couple of players in domestic cricket who are genuinely quick.
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Nov 03, 2015 12:19am
@Vectra - It's amazing how people can dismiss the opinion of a cricketer who plays and lives by cricket than an armchair supporter!
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Nov 03, 2015 12:31am
This is no different from Ind/pak/SL players playing in county. All of our Top brass batsmen and bowlers play their and learn to counter swing and conditions. Likewise, foreign players playing in India are getting better at countering swing. Why is it bad thing? Let them get used to the conditions and if Team India is good enough, they win or else they dont deserve to win.
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Nov 03, 2015 12:39am
@Sujeet @Siddhartha Shastri
Your players can only develop so much with exposure to foreign players. Fannie is right in his assessment.
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Nov 03, 2015 01:13am
Absolutely right.
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Nov 03, 2015 01:21am
@Lalit Turan India never ever had good bowlers, they just had conditions suited for them to exploit.. The article is spot on..
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Nov 03, 2015 01:28am
So when south Africa loses in india its against indian conditions and not aganist the team. Then south Africa's win in sa should also be due to sas conditions and not due to team efforts
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Nov 03, 2015 01:32am
@itrat khaliq kapil dev was not a genuine fast bowler.. Can you name any team or player that was scared to face kapil dev?
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Nov 03, 2015 01:37am
the tune here would have been different, had India won the 5th 1 day ODI.
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Nov 03, 2015 01:59am
hmm....that is not entirely correct, then the reverse should be true as well meaning Indian batsmen should benefit by playing all top bowlers at home. That didn't happen so there has to be something else here.
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Nov 03, 2015 02:22am
India lost to one Man - ABD. Not to a team.
Remove ABD from your team and your team is nothing. Don't you remember loosing to teams like India, New Zealand etc in Australia?
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Nov 03, 2015 02:22am
@Harmony-1 then why does the PCB want to bring PSL to Pakistan? Do they care more about money also.
We weren't good enough thats it.
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Nov 03, 2015 02:23am
@Shahzad Ikhlaq Thats true for all subcontinent team.
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Nov 03, 2015 02:23am
When money, power, infinite resources and soft fame are the only points of contention, this is what happens to the so-called world champions in their own backyard. Indeed, an excellent statement by Fanie De Villiers.
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Nov 03, 2015 02:33am
@IPL Fan I am sorry to say, you didn't get the bottom line of what I said or implied :) enjoy
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Nov 03, 2015 02:35am
No country has produced a pace bowlers in a decade. No player want to be a pace bowler. Average life of pacer is less than three years. One bad series can put curtain on a carrier.
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Nov 03, 2015 02:39am
I hope ppl will succeed so Ipl and ppl can play against each other without putting countries politics in middle.
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Nov 03, 2015 03:34am
He may be onto something, but to be fair, T20 matches can go either way and are hard to rely on, whereas 3-2 is far too close a result to support a generalization like this. If SA had whitewashed India 5-0 or even 4-1, then maybe there would be something to say. 3-2 simply means that SA had one more good day compared to India.
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Nov 03, 2015 05:49am
So true.
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Nov 03, 2015 06:30am
On the other hand, in all the matches of Ind vs SA, whenever A.B.De Villeries came into bat, Indian fans chanted "A.B...A.B.". It is common to see fans clapping for opponent batsmen on scoring century, but when A.B. scored century, Indian fans were jumping up and down and giving hi-fives... This made possible only because of IPL.
This is good for cricket, good for players. It is about game, winning takes back seat.
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Nov 03, 2015 07:10am
Dhoni has made hell out of Indian cricket team. He is finishing Indian team before he finishes his own career. He spoiled the career of many good Indian cricketers and now he is giving India the worst team of all time.....
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Nov 03, 2015 08:45am
@Peace : no idea what you are talking about. Get some peace :)
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Nov 03, 2015 10:22am
"" India aren't good overseas, they are only good in their own conditions."
Here is the overseas record which he is oblivious of-which is better than SA
• India has won Champions trophy in England in 2013 where Pakistan finished last, Won a World Cup in UK, Won T20 World Cup in South Africa, won U19 World cup in Australia beating home side Australia in pool match and easy final, Won another U19 World cup in Malaysia; won 3 way series in West Indies that included Sri Lanka , thrashed Zimbabwe in Harare 5-0 thrashed England 4-1 whitewash in their recent tour of England!. Recently in world cup -Thrashed Pakistan in Adelaide by 86 runs ,, Easily beat South Africa in Melbourne by 140 runs , beat Windies in Perth India won by 4 wickets (with 65 balls remaining), easily accounted for Bangladesh in Melbourne. Beat Zimbabwe 4-0 in July 2015!
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Nov 03, 2015 10:41am
@IPL Fan THAT is exactly the point you are missing my friend! India has never been short of batting talent but bowling is where it has always lagged behind. Now with the advent of IPL, foreign bowlers are getting experience of Indian pitches and foreign batsmen are getting acclimatized with the conditions and THAT is why the Indian team, which was once THE place to win for any overseas team, is getting beaten left and right in their own backyard.
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Nov 03, 2015 10:58am
Fannie is right. But what's important is the quality of cricket that is improving. Afterall, cricket is not played only for winning. It's for the love of the sport, the popularity (and of course the money!)
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Nov 03, 2015 12:16pm
@Jawwad : Winning and loosing are part of the game. But IPL has helped a lot to those players who were not part of India team and has improved their financial conditions. Even players are getting pension and good money in domestic matches due to IPL only.
But yes the effect would be foreigners would be familiar to Indian condition which would help them them to perform better in sub-continent. But that is fine and now its upto India team to perform better.
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Nov 03, 2015 01:08pm
Well said! this is why I don't want PSL to happen in Pakistan. Foreign players should be allowed to be a part of our domestic matches, which will again bring some interest. Again this is a corporate call, since PCB is not representing Pakistani cricket in its true form.
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Nov 03, 2015 04:32pm
So when SA beats India in their home country, does it win against the team or the conditions? Bravado is fine, but should be backed up by facts.
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Nov 03, 2015 05:18pm
In any case as admitted by all they got more support in Mumbai than the Indian team during the last match and every 4 and 6 was cheered.
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