Do Pakistani men condemn or condone wife-beating?
We spoke to men on Karachi's streets to find out
Dawn.com
Published
May 27, 2016
The Council of Islamic Ideology’s (CII) proposed ‘model’ women’s protection bill was released yesterday. One point in the bill, saying that a husband should be allowed to ‘lightly’ beat his wife 'if needed', seemed to immediately catch people’s attention. Soon enough, a social media debate was underway, with both sides vehemently arguing their positions.
Here, Dawn.com reaches out to a few men on the streets of Karachi to weigh in on the controversial clause.
Comments (61) Closed
GA
May 27, 2016 07:28pm
Frankly I was expecting the worst. But the views are mixed. Ability to negotiate peacefully is what distinguishes humans from animals. Although CII would disagree.
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mehul
May 27, 2016 07:33pm
The number of people okay with hitting your wife is shocking!
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Mahmood
May 27, 2016 07:38pm
Why is this topic being made 'Pakistan' centric?
Name a single country in the world, - from conservative and supposedly 'pious Islamic nations of the Gulf' to the decadent West, from communist China to liberal Scandinavia - where spousal abuse, in some form does not occur?
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Omar
May 27, 2016 07:38pm
Women are t be respected and bring in new life into this world. As humans we can have difference. Violence and abuse in the form of hitting is usually the result of being unable to properly communicate between two partners. I liked what the one man said, we are human, we should not hit anyone be it a man, women or even animal, if things don't work out then agree to disagree and set her free! well said!
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KARACHI WALA
May 27, 2016 07:42pm
CII should be allowed to go ahead with this proposal provided there is moratorium for five years. Those who are in favor, if married, should let their spouses test the proposal on them. They should also be allowed to decide the degree of "light beating". Those who are unmarried and are still in favor, let the local police station help in this matter.
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ripan
May 27, 2016 08:03pm
nice video..every pakistani should watch this..
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Nadeem
May 27, 2016 08:06pm
It has been a sad story of Pakistan ever since it was separated from India. Illiterate and jahil Mullahs who did not do anything in life but to project the customized and distorted picture of Islam. They think that women have been created just for their pleasure and to cook food for them and nothing else. Unfortunately these Halwa Manda group is controlling the major part of our illiterate and uneducated population because it is an east target for them. No government since the Pakistan's birth has worked on to provide the basic education specially in rural areas. It is so unfortunate to see that these sick minded people are sitting in key positions and are so called the decision makers. Read this proposed bill and make up on your mind that if it is coming out of an educated and professional Islamic scholar or from just some high school personnel. Look at the middle East countries, how many women are treated the way this bill is proposing... Are they not an Islamic states?
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A C
May 27, 2016 08:07pm
It is horrible to abuse female in the name of religion , no religion will allow such in humane acts People should condemn such acts
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Agha Ata
May 27, 2016 08:18pm
I am shocked. I don't want to write anything anymore on this topic.
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Sunil Dhiman
May 27, 2016 08:18pm
I f u hit women then think your Mother, Sister, Daughter
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My Life
May 27, 2016 08:23pm
First explain her softly and gently than a bit sadly and in some case one time lightly beating to a woman is allowed, It is not like beating but touching her gently, so she can understand him. In the same way woman is not a housemate, she must not sweep, or take care of her's husband's Family, she must not cook, she is not at home for these things. She is at home for her children and for her Husband. This is what Islam says. If she do all these jobs, it is just because she loves him and her children. But it never means that a man loose her patience and throw Acid on her face or kill her, just in other parts of Pakistan.
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Keep
May 27, 2016 08:25pm
Wife beating should only be acceptable if wives are allowed to beat husbands as well. Our faith treats men and women equally; hence, whats allowed to one should be allowed to other.
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Skeptic
May 27, 2016 08:30pm
Does anyone pose the same question to British or American men? The whole debate about wife beating in Pakistan is ridiculous. As if there aren't hundred other social ills in this society.
And the solution to all the problem can be found by educating the masses. That is the crux of all the problems in Pakistan.
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SardarSuri
May 27, 2016 08:31pm
When will you modernize your viewpoints and realize this is not normal 21st century behavior...
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M. Malik
May 27, 2016 08:36pm
Pakistan is not the center of the universe, never was and never will be.
With abject poverty and mass illiteracy, people are left to their own interpretation on such matters, rather than do the research and learn first-hand from the source that conditions our moral conduct.
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Khan waliti
May 27, 2016 08:39pm
Till there is a major social change which changes our thinking from a master slave relationship ( gift from our colonial past) we will never ever able to progress.
Most folks I meet from back home first try to be masters and after some negotiation decide they might be slaves. The idea of partnership or being equal does not exist in our psyche
This is then creates all sorts of problem where when given even the slightest repo similitude makes us feel that we are masters of what we control. Violence against women is a symptom of this thinking.
This is the same thinking which allows female teachers cane thier male students. Cleaning our boots to look like good English school boys. Follow our teachers not because we respect them but because we fear them
This master slave syndrome needs to stop
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Shahid
May 27, 2016 08:43pm
More of sampling bias and can not be generalized to all "pakistani men" as title claims.
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Ghuncha Gul Khan
May 27, 2016 08:46pm
So you are exclusively allowing men only to beat a weaker sex who happens to be your wife. That somebody's wife could be your own unfortunate daughter or sister married to another male. Think about it,
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Magister
May 27, 2016 08:57pm
An Urdu proverb sums up this subject pretty well: Kumzoor pay zoor. If beating someone give purpose to your existence why don't you go pick on someone bigger than yourself.
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Manzoor
May 27, 2016 09:09pm
@Sunil Dhiman
What a shame for men who condone wife beating ignoring the plight of their own mothers an sisters if they have. Any!
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Gangu Tailee
May 27, 2016 09:10pm
A women is a mother first, then sister, wife and daughter. Would you like see this happen to your mother, sister and daughter too. Wake up pakistani men!!
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Isla Khan
May 27, 2016 09:17pm
Very impressed with the number of people who think wife-bashing is wrong.
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Khalid
May 27, 2016 09:20pm
CII proposed ‘model’ women’s protection bill and it encourages men to lightly beat their wives?. We really have fools running our country. Who made this guy the religious leader he claims to be?. Fire them all and save the taxpayer's money.
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k k tiwari
May 27, 2016 09:25pm
Surprised ! what a thought ?
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lafanga
May 27, 2016 09:32pm
So four men reflect what the entire Pakistan thinks. This is why I don't like selective surveys. I am sure if you ask 1 million men in Pakistan you will be surprised to see how many reject violence against women.
Domestic violence against women is NOT just a Pakistan issue. It goes on in the entire world including the Western countries.
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ehsan
May 27, 2016 09:33pm
How wold sherani feel if his father beat his mother "lightly" or his sisters husband beat her "lightly" or his daughters husband took his advice.
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Ahsan Gul
May 27, 2016 09:33pm
Good vedios showing men's mentality in our Pakistan. With or without beards, they all have to learn a lot. As long economic conditions are not suitable for our females to work there social and family conditions will not improve.
It is not the poor who treat their women with scorn or dis dignity but I have seen educated in Islamabad men considering their women very bad.
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Faps
May 27, 2016 09:36pm
@Omar what does "set her free" mean? She is not an animal.
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J USA
May 27, 2016 09:43pm
can't believe there are men in Pak who support this !!
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Tariq Mahmood
May 27, 2016 10:01pm
It is shocking to know that we, as a nation are actually having this debate. Beating is violence and shows mental sickness of the person administering it. Have we reached a level where we are not only condoning it but legalizing the insanity. Beaters should be prosecuted and treated for mental illness whether it is a man doing to women or vice versa or for that matter to any body. People; think about your mother being beaten up in front of you and you are below the level of humans if you witnessed that and did not do anything about it.
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Mohammad M Alam
May 27, 2016 10:15pm
Ridiculous just ridiculous we have people who are stuck in 8th century who actually believe this should be done. Horrible just horrible.
We should not allow this to happen no one should be allowed to lay a finger on anyone else, wife, husband etc.
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Mohammad M Alam
May 27, 2016 10:24pm
Jeez these people are still living in 10th century who does that its plain and simple abuse who then decides what constitute lightly beating. Who beats their spouse? only weak people.
Disgusting just disgusting
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moni
May 27, 2016 10:51pm
@Sunil Dhiman hitting a sister, daughter is very common, even killing like honor killing as you read in newspaper from india and pakistan.
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Samad Chaudhry London
May 27, 2016 11:04pm
Violence of any kind and to punish the mother of your children is evil. It should not be allowed.
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asim
May 27, 2016 11:07pm
even the discussion on this proposal is revoltingly disgusting in this day and age
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gknatarajan
May 27, 2016 11:12pm
i can only say that, beating one" wife even lightly is rediculous! women are not slaves?no religen permits such inhuman act, i presume!
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brighton rodeo
May 27, 2016 11:21pm
it is unique standard to think about your sisters, mother and loved ones before even you
say abusive words to wife or any female gender.Good luck CII.
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Seedoo
May 28, 2016 12:06am
As a man you are a coward if you hit your wife or your children
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Anwar Sadiqque
May 28, 2016 02:02am
When someone resorts to violence then they have shown :
a) Lack of maturity
b) Unable to make their point verbally.
c) Self-centered.
d) Insecure.
How does the beating of a wife/mother affect the children? I would imagine the serious psychological damage.
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NAK
May 28, 2016 02:05am
That's how far we are from being a civilized society.
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Ghuncha Gul Khan
May 28, 2016 03:01am
@Sunil Dhiman --Well said!
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Nadeem
May 28, 2016 03:47am
@GA, You expect 'the worst' because of disinformation spread by our media and the 'NGOs'!
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Mango man
May 28, 2016 04:00am
Do Pakistani men condemn or condone wife-beating?
It depends... on how many pegs they had... and also if they are in front of the camera...
I wish I had a better way of expressing this.
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samrat
May 28, 2016 04:22am
No matter what anyone says domestic violence exists in all countries & societies of the world and often we only consider husband hitting wife wrong! but society tends to laugh off womens violence against their husands. Both should be condemned equally!
The problem in this case is when an islamic scholar comes out and says its ok to bash your mrs people will feel that it's acceptable to do so - and that's the real danger.
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Yasir
May 28, 2016 04:59am
In this day and age when humans are planning to land on Mars and other planets, we are still stuck with basic moral questions. Basic moral rights to live freely and without any fear for all living beings on this planet whether it be humans, animals or plants. Mankind is learning it's lesson with time and sometimes the hard way in the form of environmental disaster, animal abuse or gender discrimination.
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tariq
May 28, 2016 06:12am
Lightly or not, No one better hit my daughter or sisters! or they wont be hit lightly!
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Zulfikr Ali Khan(ZAK)
May 28, 2016 06:54am
It is hard to believe that this discussion is happening in 2016.
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Zak
May 28, 2016 07:15am
The word 'beating' is incorrect, it is more ' gesture of admonishment' with a small leafy twig. Men in frustration from time immemorial have reached points where in frustration let lose their anger with ferocity. Here it is saying, ' ok, if you reach that point, show your displeasure with a gesture of admonishment' . It has curtailed a situation. However, if there are social support centres, then issues can be addressed before the situation deteriorates.
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M. Siddique
May 28, 2016 07:15am
Husband and wife are two wheels of the cart of marriage. If one is treated badly the cart will stall. Why don't these so-called Ulema don't understand this? It is not rocket science but common sense.
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sri1
May 28, 2016 07:27am
@Sunil Dhiman " If u hit women then think your Mother, Sister, Daughter"
That argument makes no difference to the audience favorable to spousal light-beating, Sunil. For them, even a mother, sis or daughter needs to be hit ("lightly", of course) if their actions are "deemed wrong".
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karachi Wally
May 28, 2016 08:05am
I was expecting everybody would say you cant beat and should not beat. Because in normal temperament all men will say that. But in high temperament situations man's ego is raised and then he thinks beating as his right.
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george
May 28, 2016 08:38am
@Sunil Dhiman Well said.
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pervez
May 28, 2016 09:09am
Is it OK to watch you mother being beaten by your father. If not then why yor wife? She is someone's mother.
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Hassan
May 28, 2016 09:15am
@Sunil Dhiman those who hit dont spare sister mother unfortunately. Know about it in billage I grew up.
So throwing acid is ok as no bones hurt. ?
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Nauman
May 28, 2016 09:53am
Who follows Law in Pakistan... ? If a person wants to beat his wife, he is not going to look at the country's Law, this all depends on the person, coward people beats wife, the brave people show their bravery outside the house and at home very humble and lovable. Coward people outside the house are coward and at home Brave/Heroes ! Correct me if I am wrong ?
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ANWAR IQBAL
May 28, 2016 10:39am
No other religion can give more respect to woman than Islam.In fact there is no example in life of our Holy prophet (S.A.W) of lightly beating any of his wife.
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shereen
May 28, 2016 11:10am
So we are still not human first but wives or mothers or daughters. Without a role assigned we have a partial and conditional existence or value. And I repeat, it will only change when we raise our sons right. Laws can't change our society.
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Osama Khan
May 28, 2016 11:21am
There are some areas that requires the language of strong or hard words to get things into the track . Sometimes all issues cannot be sorted out with sweet behaviors . Likewise , if we specifically talks about Islamic point of view , it is clearly mentioned in descriptions that if the wife is going into the wrong track or a track that is not acceptable in such a relation then there is an option to a husband to lightly hit his wife . If not still she rectifies her action then sent her home . I believe if lightly hitting saves the relation then it is better than giving divorce which is more painful.
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Faisal Naqvi
May 28, 2016 11:23am
This is all planned by the government and media took the bait. It's a distraction so people don't ask about their corruption. All of a sudden Panama leak is not a hot topic. I actually felt bad for the members of council of Islamic ideology as the were so less prepared when trying to defend their proposals on TV. Media should not take CII seriously. Frankly they are ignorant and manipulated.
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BNS
May 28, 2016 06:29pm
CII has no place in a democratic setup. Neither are they useful nor needed. Same is applicable on their recommendations as well.
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hammurabi
May 30, 2016 01:04pm
@ANWAR IQBAL
All religions give respect to women.We should not compare religions as each religion compliments the other.
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