Interim Prime Minister Anwaarul Haq Kakar said on Saturday that social order can “never ever be compromised for the rule of law” as he emphasised striking a balance between the two.

“We are committed and understand that the performance and the participatory idea of democracy is what is needed but at the same time, you have to strike a balance — there’s a rule of law and then there’s a rule of order,” he stressed.

The premier passed these remarks during an interactive session with a delegation of students from Harvard, who are in Pakistan on a visit. The students had also interacted with Chief of Army Staff Gen Asim Munir yesterday.

A number of topics came up for discussion in the meeting today, including the state of democracy, the economy, brain drain and the challenges Pakistan is facing with terrorism.

Interacting with the students on the future of democracy in Pakistan, PM Kakar said the “incomplete completion of tenure of any government is not at all undemocratic”.

“Democracy gives a guarantee to the strength of the Parliament and in Pakistan’s case, last 15 years post-2008, we had successive three stints of Parliament,” he said, adding that the Parliament could be changed through constitutional means which has happened in the country.

“You have to agree that members of the Parliament have the inherent right to emplace or replace a government.

“I have not seen any act in the past 15 years where the case has been otherwise,” he asserted, stressing that “democracy is a process not an event”.

In an indirect reference to India, he said, “In our neighbourhood, the ritual of democracy has been exercised for the last seven decades but it is heading towards electoral autocracy.

“Is this the kind of democracy you would envision and want to have for the USA or UK or France? I don’t think so.”

Putting weight behind striking the balance between the rule of law and the rule of order, he said: “In Pakistan’s context, there are times where the normal laws get suspended or are not the solution to the kind of challenges we face, like our security challenge … so the priority is that you first secure life, secure social and political order and later on you go for issues of civil liberties, democratic principles so on and so forth.”

‘Social contract to ensure rights of citizens’

At the outset of the session, the PM said it was not possible for a nation to “divorce itself” from America if it wanted to remain connected with global technology, research and development.

“We are rational enough to engage in this relationship, but it doesn’t mean we agree with everything that America does and of course, we have a very healthy disagreement,” he stated.

Talking about Pakistan’s role in the global economy, the premier highlighted: “Don’t forget that the capitalist system’s frontline state was Pakistan. The entire GDP (gross domestic product) of the Western hemisphere … probably $20 trillion or $40 trillion… is preserved because we fought a war with Marxist ideas where the Soviet regime, along with the whole of Eastern Europe, was giving and demonstrating an alternate political and economic system.

“If we wouldn’t have fought from 1979 to 1989, the $30 trillion of the capitalist economy wouldn’t have been there, we contributed to that … we were in the forefront, but I feel at times we fail to articulate what we have contributed towards global peace, global security and global economic and financial institutions.”

Talking about delivering to the common man, PM Kakar said that the presence of two of the world’s military might — the “Soviet empire and the Nato alliance” — in the South Asian region over the last seven decades had had a lot of implications on the society.

“At the same time, in the manner our state building institution had responded in this environment and many external realities have shaped our choices, in which at times our democratic dispensation has been at discontinuation… sometimes our priorities to deliver to a common man has been out of context,” he explained.

In this process, PM Kakar continued, the government’s spending spree was on issues that were of “utmost importance” to it but did not prioritise the political, economic and social rights of the common man.

“But we have a vision and we are trying to realise those visions and the greater value system on the basis of which this country was created,” he assured.

Citing the example of Israel and Pakistan, countries that were built on “religious aspirations”, the PM said that even though the nations had taken different courses and had different destinies, they lived in an environment where security was of utmost importance.

“If you delve in and dig out, again I would say these external factors were determining our choices.”

But now, PM Kakar said he believed the “dust was settling down”, the common man was becoming the “nucleus” and Pakistan was transforming towards developing a social contract in which the rights and responsibilities of the citizens were ensured and vice versa. “It is a dual carriage, it has to come both ways.”

Financial position

In response to a question pertaining to Pakistan’s dependence on external financial institutions, the caretaker PM said the International Monetary Fund (IMF) was “neither a friend nor a foe”.

“The real foe is our expenditure habit and the way we generate revenue, so if we want to survive as a state we have to alter both. Rationalise our expenditure and we have to change our ways of generating revenues.”

The premier highlighted that Pakistan’s tax ratio to GDP was nine per cent and stressed enhancing the tax net and bringing forth the non-documented economy.

“How do we invest in our human resources? Do we manufacture goods or develop our individuals and sell services? So these are the two areas on which broadly we will focus,” he told the delegation.

PM Kakar further said that Pakistan was gifted with precious resources, which included not just mineral goods but also talented people, and expressed confidence that “these stars” would guide the country.

He mentioned that there was a time when Israel faced a financial crunch and the inflation rate had skyrocketed. “But they sat there, put in the right policies, focused on recovering their economic woes and they were there … I am sure we will do better.”

On brain drain

Talking about the exodus of young minds from Pakistan, PM Kakar said he was “trolled on Twitter (now X) for the last 48 hours on one of my comments which was incomplete, in which I tried to explain this phenomenon”.

He opined that people who chose to stay in the US or anywhere else in the world were not a challenge but an opportunity.

“They go there, they contribute to their societies, become breadwinners for their families and indirectly we benefit from their remittances.

“So I hardly take it in negative terms when young people are going to the Western hemisphere, trying to grab opportunities there, trying to prove themselves… their individuality shines there,” he said.

The premier added that whether people were here or there, it was important that they reach the “zenith” of their professions. “If you are a refund and non-productive individual, either at home or abroad, that is a huge challenge.”