LAHORE, Sept 4: Dr Mubashir Hasan, a leader who played an active role in what was called Track-II diplomacy for a solution to the Kashmir dispute, has urged the governments of Pakistan and India to open the Line of Control for traffic and trade till some solution is found to the problem that has been straining ties between the two nuclear powers ever since they got independence from Britain six decades ago.

In an interview to Dawn on Thursday, he claimed that people of Jammu and Kashmir felt completely alienated from India and they also were not in favour of accession with Pakistan.

In such a situation, said the Punjab PPP-SB president, the government of India should negotiate with the leaders of Jammu and Kashmir separately as well as collectively to arrive at a consensus solution. “Pakistan should follow suit. Then discussions should be held with all Jammu and Kashmir leaders together.”A former finance minister in the late Zulfikar Ali Bhutto’s cabinet, Dr Hasan said the negotiations were going to be extremely difficult and time consuming. “They will require patience on all sides. It will be best to make a start by opening the Line of Control for traffic and trade. It will go a long way.”

He made it clear that if the two governments did not act wisely, “they must remember that the fire for independence in the heart of Kashmiris will not die down for ages to come.”

Asked how it would be determined as to how the people of Kashmir wanted the dispute settled, he said: “People speak through their participation in meetings and processions. The leaders follow the people and articulate as best they can what the people say.”

Explaining his point, he said for the last 20 years the people had been speaking through coming out on streets and holding demonstrations. Thousand and thousands had lost their lives for political reasons. According to some estimates 80,000 people had been killed, he said.

“Half a million Indian troops and paramilitary forces are needed to keep the government in power. The leaders who say or want to say what people are saying spend time in jail. Many have lost their lives.”

Dr Hasan said: “Now the people and the leaders are making their demands in a more forceful way than ever before. By marching towards Pakistan they have expressed and radicalised their demand in a more revolutionary way than they had done before. The leaders who have been divided before have taken identical stand which was recognised by the government of India. All were sent to jail simultaneously.”

He said: “For quite some time the people of the former state are completely alienated from India. This has been taken notice in mainstream Indian papers where the editors have accepted articles in which independence for Kashmir has been proposed. This is a major change in the policy of the media. Such expression of views was a taboo heretofore.”

He said the people or the government of Pakistan must not delude themselves. “Alienation with India does not mean preference for Pakistan.”

He was of the opinion that Pakistani flags in the Kashmiri demonstrations did not represent the desire of the Kashmiris to become a part of the state of Pakistan. “Even the people of Azad Jammu and Kashmir, unlike their governments also lean towards independence.”

He said he would not blame the people of Kashmir for their attitude. He said the way Islamabad treated Balochistan, Sindh and Frontier provinces might have influenced their opinion.

He did not agree with the suggestion that the Kashmiri people wanted liberation from India and accession with Pakistan.

“Not true”.

He said Pakistan itself did not ask the Kashmiris to accede to it or that the Islamic Republic had a right over Kashmir.

“The constitution of Pakistan is silent about Kashmir becoming part of Pakistan. The UN resolution gave them the option to become part of India as well. However, a lot of water has flowed down the rivers of Kashmir. Pakistan no longer seems to insist on UN resolutions to be followed. For the last 10 years, it has changed its stand on the UN resolutions and says that we want a solution that fulfills the wishes of the people of Kashmir.”

Elaborating on the point, he said: “What I am suggesting is that governments of India and Pakistan and leaders of Kashmiris should work out a solution which should be put before the people for approval through referendum. I see danger in finding out the aspirations of the people through elections. The election process works up emotions of the people in the form of black or white solutions to a very high pitch. It engenders irreconcilable post-election hatreds amongst them. When enacted upon, mass killings and mass migrations take place as happened after the 1946 elections in India, 1970 elections in Pakistan, a referendum in Yugoslavia. Those scenarios must be avoided.”

In response to a question, Dr Hasan said: “There are problems with the demand for independence of Kashmir. Neither India nor Pakistan nor the US and China are likely to support independence.”

He said as discussions were held with J&K leaders the governments of Pakistan and India would raise vital question of their national security. “The governments of Pakistan and India don’t trust each other. They cannot afford to leave the huge area of the former state without any way to defend the area from attack from either side or China. They wouldn’t like to leave the defence of J&K along the Chinese border with the new Kashmiri state or states.”

The former minister said: “India would like to defend the Kashmir border where it has forces today. Likewise, Pakistani forces would not like to withdraw from Khunjrab border. So India and Pakistan have to arrive at some agreement with the future government(s) of J&K about the defence from east, west and north. Further, neither Pakistan nor India would like to lose the right of free trade and access with the former state(s).”