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Nosheen Abbas shares memories of being stereotyped and struggling to erase misconceptions.
My family is scattered across the world and I am missing out on school. For the mean time I’ll have to go to high school in Chicago where I’m living with my aunt. On my first day of high school I realize that it’s exactly the way it is in movies. They are so neatly categorized – The group of cheerleaders, the jocks, the Goths, the hippies and the bohemians. You can tell which kids are popular and which ones aren’t. I’ve been there a few days and its definitely harder making friend here since you have different set of kids in each class. As the bell rings for the next period, all the kids are morphed in to one clogging the halls with everyone on their way to their respective classes.
A friendly and intelligent looking girl strikes up a conversation with me on the way.
‘Hey, where are you from?’ she asks.
‘I’m from Pakistan,” I reply.
She pauses for a second, then exclaims, ‘Wow! Your English is so good’.
Her friend hears in on our conversation and joins in to what becomes a collective awe of my existence.
I start explaining, ‘Actually, a lot of people can speak English really well in Pakistan… even those who aren’t educated are able to communicate in English.”
I want to tell her we have cafés, we have places to shop, we have really good schools, we play sports, and we have a lot of talent….
The bell rings and we’ve split up- somehow I never saw her again.
Our class of A-levels in Romania had a total of six students and so it was a pretty cozy classroom. Whenever we found out that a new student was joining us, the rest of the day was consumed by predictions. We were like a secret society by default.
A girl from Lebanon joined a week after I had. As the ‘new kid’ in class she tried to act standoffish, but then couldn’t help identifying herself with me. She constantly tried to find parallels in our culture, our thinking and our lifestyle: the ‘strict parents’, the conservative thinking. She became more at ease knowing there was someone who understood her life’s context and hence she starts sitting next to me in class.
One day as Nancy and I were deep in conversation, Sam, a Chinese boy in our class interrupts to ask in all innocence
‘So how do you guys commute in your country?’ he asks
Nancy and I look at each other half amused and half just shocked.
‘We travel on camels - it’s a hard life - we have lanterns in place of electricity but they just keep on going out - so it’s a bit of a pain,’ I say straight faced, until Nancy cant help it and bursts out in guffaws.
I was visiting a good friend in Bedford where she was doing her A-levels. I went along with her to her school one day and she gave me a disclaimer about the Pakistanis there: ‘They dress like they are in the 80’s... the fashion hasn’t changed for Pakistanis who moved here a long time ago - and its hilarious because they wear gottay walay kaprey to school!’
While my friend was in class I was hanging out around the school. She’s assigned a few of her friends to ‘look after’ me. I was wearing jeans and a t-shirt and the girl who I was talking to was wearing something out of an old Indian movie.
‘Are you from Pakistan?’ she asked me.
‘Yep – I’ve been living there for a good chunk of my life,’ I said.
‘Are you serious? That’s…that’s somehow really surprising to me….do you wear jeans in Pakistan?’ she asked.
‘Yeah I do. There are some places you cant… or better still… you just shouldn’t,’ I replied.
‘And you speak English pretty well….where did you learn English?’ she retorted.
‘In school…in Pakistan’
She looked bewildered. She didn’t know what to say…then she laughed to herself, and in a heavy Punjabi accent says ‘Khaana hai the shakar sheewian nehi the shur hi kharna hai.’
My village is in Chakwal – I’m visiting it soon after I’ve moved back from Australia. I’m wearing a huge chaddar that limits my arm movements. My relatives in the village start laughing when they see me.
‘Why are you all wrapped up?’ they ask me amused.
‘Well... I thought …you know in the village... people would be conservative.’
‘Don’t be silly!’ Scolds my cousin as she pulls my chaddar slightly.
Walking in the village, people really aren’t as strictly conservative as I assumed.
I see a couple holding hands. I’m a little surprised….what do you know- this probably would have been looked upon oddly in a city like Islamabad!
Read more
On DawnNews
Comments (137) Closed
May 25, 2009 01:22pm
I think Pakistanis love Indian movies more than we do!
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May 25, 2009 01:22pm
I can absolutely identify with your experiences, as I had similar ones, while I was in NewYork,SanFrancisco, Orlando, London and Hamburg. I think we as educated, privleged class of Pakistanis, should write more and more about ourselves, our country, which is so misuderstood in the current precarious situation, so to welcome dialogue. We should speak up more and more & try to promote education in Pakistan on primary level...atleast!
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May 25, 2009 01:26pm
I am now a day in Sweden and facing same sort of experiences. Majority of people here have very strange ideas about Pakistan but when they have had a chance to see any Pakistani student and talk little bit about Pakistan they really become astonished.
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May 25, 2009 01:27pm
The article is so interesting that it brought back the memories of back home i.e., Pakistan.
I moved to states after college in 1982, I was 22 year of age. I do relate to some of the stories of Nosheen that it is true to this day. Even thogh I did not go to high School here but the culture in College had the same similarities.
With the IT world, I find the new generation growing up in Pakistan is very much aware of the American culture and when they move to states it is hard to tell, because they mingle very well in this multi-cultural society.
My advise to the younger generation moving to any new culture is: "Always be proud of your heritage and walk with your chin up and you will attract the best of friends for life".
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May 25, 2009 01:29pm
My father is a retired Air Vice Marshall from the Pakistan Air Force, and living in cantonments and air bases is like living in a bubble of innocence.
I was fairly surprised when I started visiting my village in the outskirts of Peshawar, on Warsak Road. They were far more 'stylized' and 'fashion conscious' than we were!
=) Its an experience being a Pakistani and living in this land of fantasy, love and surprises!
and Yes! We do wear jeans in Pakistan *smiles*
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May 25, 2009 01:30pm
One could encounter similar situations as described in the blog, while traveling across the world with the peculiar background of the writer.
Having lived in, worked at or visited more than 50 plus countries across the globe encompassing six continents, a born and raised 'Pakistani' like me can also write a book on the experiences and expeditions encountered since last two decades or so. The interesting thing is that within the land of the pure, Alhamadoillah, I had had the opportunity to live in, visit and being educated at different instututions of almost all main cities of the country spanning across the 'five' provinces including the former 'East Pakistan'
After reading this article, I must candidly admit that I got kind of inspired and motivated and started thinking of writing my memoirs akin to that of the author, entitled "St. Louis, Sialkot, Kohat, Sanghir and Kalat."
Who knows, if effected and implemented successfully, the memoirs could become "Best Seller" one day?
As they say, anything is possible in today's globalized world.
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May 25, 2009 01:42pm
Nicely written. Really dissects the world-wide stereotyping.
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May 25, 2009 01:50pm
I can relate to it. Even though I moved to US in my mid 20's and didn't have to deal with school crowd but the kind of questions people ask. well not labelling everyone but still , the hardest one is when they think all Asians are either Indians or Chinese if not that , whether we have proper roads or schools, or people have enough to eat..and as for some of our own desi's ..it gets kind of annoying at times more so on times when they try to act oh we are so American and Pakistan is so ghetto.. forgetting no matter how many years you have lived abroad , your next few generations will always be called Asians or desi's.. can't hide your skin unless you want to be another Michael Jackson..
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May 25, 2009 01:53pm
interesting ;)
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May 25, 2009 02:08pm
WOW, yet again you have amazed us with your writing skills...it actually takes you back in time!!! and btw, i love the way your "desi" friend made the observation!
keep it up!
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May 25, 2009 02:12pm
My family is scattered in three continents as well. Whenever I get opportunity, I try to visit them and see that city myself.
With little analysis, I noticed in any major city in the world, people would associate Pakistan with negativity.
Why do they do that? Is it that they are biased? I think not!
Because this is what they see on TV and media!
Therefore stereotypes take over whenever word Pakistan is processed in the background of that information available to most of the people.
Once I engaged in conversation with people, they would realize that I could talk much more in details about life issues than just small talks; they they would change their mind on Pakistanis.
Most of my friends could only talk small talks, which I did not have skills at first and felt isolated.
What I truly think is, there is need to have technology and business news on Pakistan as well covered in those countries where hostility towards Pakistan is on rise.
Just hearing bad news does bring challenges for Pakistanis living as dual nationals.
Our media can feed those news wires with IT and technology news so that people in other major cities can understand pakistan better and fear factor on Pakistan can be minimised.
We also need to let world know that, we are hosting 3 million afghan refugees. That itself is the source of problem for Pakistan.
Just trying to keep my comments to stereotypes here, but it slips away to political side as they are both connected.
Waseem Akram
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May 25, 2009 02:21pm
wow, chakwal girl, i was amazed to see my city name on front page yes every thing is like fantasy
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May 25, 2009 02:35pm
Had fun reading about your experiences!
The whole thing of being from Pakistan and knowing good English really shocks people in the west.....The expressions they make are really funny!
Nosheen Abbas this is your first article that I've read.....will look forward to reading more!! :)
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May 25, 2009 02:42pm
You didn't say why you were at all these different places.
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May 25, 2009 02:49pm
Hm...I have a few commonalities with this writer. I'm a professional living in Chicago area and also belong to a village in District Chakwal which I visited often but hardly lived while growing up in Pakistan.
Having gone to school and lived in the US almost all my adult life, I can understand the stereotypes she faced here. Sadly, violance, protests, and long beards chanting anti-US/Jews slogans is all what Americans see on their TV screens about Pakistan.
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May 25, 2009 03:09pm
Hey Nosheen!
Well, guess what, my village is near Chakwal too. Its called Warwal-maybe you've heard of it. I'm doing my MBBS 2nd year from Aga Khan Uni Karachi, but my family is permanently based in Pindi now. However, we definitely go visit Warwal once in a while.
You should post more often. Its interesting to read first hand accounts of Pakistanis living in the West. I myself am coming to NY for the first time to do some summer research at Columbia.
All the Best,
Zohaib
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May 25, 2009 03:09pm
That is nothing.In Kansas U one woman asked me do you taxis in Pakistan.I said no I will get down from PAN AM jumbo and take a camel.After a pause she asked Is it that you live in tents back home. I said no we live on tree tops. A Pakistani friend sitting next added. Since his friend is well off they have several trees and hop from one to another.
Pakistani problem is that we don't project our good side. We are even apologetic about it.Compare Jinnah with Gandhi/Nehru and look at the Indian men/girls on bollywood.
Pakistani women abroad wear salwar/kameez of the model about ten years back. They don't let even their sons to date,eat Indian curries,talk Indian movies,watch depressing Pakistani dramas.They just refuse to integrate.Arab women,except Somalian dress differently.
Ou religious leaders and women have to change. We have to proud of the culture which the Muslim kings/patricians promoted:they were secular,they enjoyed life, and married Hindu girls.Our religious leaders have told us that is why muslim empire fell and we believed that and are now stuck with Taliban culture which neither society nor media has opposed,till recently but have not rejected repeat rejected.
Pakistan should use internet/utube to project it best side polo,fashion,music and good looking girls and there would be different image.
I think problem is with us not with the West.You cannot blame west for thinking that one swallow does't make a summer.
A.Bajwa
Ottawa
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May 25, 2009 03:10pm
I think you were stereotyping when you say, "...we have places to shop, we have really good schools, we play sports, and we have a lot of talent
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May 25, 2009 03:11pm
Thank God, We have a voice!!!
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May 25, 2009 03:15pm
Funny but so true.
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May 25, 2009 03:24pm
lol Indeed that happens. You've been through what they call a reverse culture shock. But yeha the biases and the stereotypes here in chicago are alarming and even hysterical at times.
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May 25, 2009 03:35pm
:)
Very entertaining and honest.
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May 25, 2009 03:35pm
The pakistani parents that I know of, take their daughters to Pakistan when they are 15 or 16, cant even spell jeans yet, pick a guy in Lahore or Peshwar and get em married and go for Hajj.
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May 25, 2009 04:45pm
Nice Blog. I really liked the simplicity of your Style.
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May 25, 2009 04:57pm
I grew up in Karachi, Pakistan. Love the place to bits. Love Pakistan to bits.
But the way things are, I at times feel sad and rather frustrated to see the impression we are devloping on the world.
I keep telling people here about the good things in Pakistan and our family oriented social structure. But there are questions, well proven by happening in NWFP (extremism), Karachi (crime ... and collaborative violance on the street even when someone's chicken dies), Lahore (things such as diamond market etc.) and general mishaps caused by people among us.
I have not been there for few years now and am leaving in July. I wonder, if it has really gone as bad as the world percieve it here.
I pray alot for the land.
Thanks,
F
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May 25, 2009 05:01pm
To be honest , I am really not able to figure out , what she wants to say. It is not such a strange thing as she describing. thanks
Tabassam(IL-usa)
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May 25, 2009 05:07pm
In Chakwal District is a village on the Salt Range. I wonder if you know it? Many renowned Pakistanis have studied in a school there. Among them is a famous fighter pilot Cecil Chaudhary. I am a retired Indian Army officer all of 60 years old. My grandfather was from Cecil's village Dalwal and one of the early students of the school there where Cecil later studied. My father was born in Dalwal and studied in FC College Lahore where Cecil studied. Cecil and I are ex Armed Forces personnel So we have somethings in common. If we were to get in touch with each other we may have experiences akin to yours. Is there any way you can help me contact him?
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May 25, 2009 05:22pm
and the moral of the story was......
is it just the misconceptions of the west, the conspiring media which potrays us as uneducated rouges or is it the system? what do you think!!
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May 25, 2009 05:29pm
No offence to the author. But in an attempt to comment on the stereotypes who are the stereotypes and the stereotypes who make the stereotypes out of non-stereotypes, the author seems to have become a stereotype.
Like most South Asians, who take pride in being anywhere other than South Asia, speaking anything but South Asian and pointing to the stereotypes of the west who make stereotypes out of non-stereotypes of the east, she has become a stereotype.
I know, I'm becoming a stereotype, by pointing to you.
Nonetheless, one becomes a stereotype not by how he dresses or speaks but rather by how he thinks. Now, that I call making a non-stereotype out of a stereotype. Sorry, that doesn't include the author.
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May 25, 2009 05:29pm
Oppulence is a good thing -- it allows you to traverse cultures invisibly. Most people think of Pakistan as the land of the 99% of the poor, for whom lanterns at night and camels to ride on are sheer dreams - for them the next meal is life's immediate challenge.
Their blood has been drained by the chameleons who traverse the world without knowing they even exist. The poor farmers of Chakwal have had their land robbed by the rich 'zamindars' -- aik anghust kat li hai.
The foreigners who you meet know more about Pakistan than you do -- you live in a wonderland of which they are unaware of.
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May 25, 2009 05:29pm
American people are very simple and do not have the time or resources to think on their own. All they believe in is what is fed to them either by their media, politicians or clergy, regardless if it is true or not. This is not their fault, because that's all they hear or see about us on media. We as individuals, living all across the world, can bring a very positive image about Pakistan, by our actions and talking to them nicely about our culture, religion, traditions, etc. American people have a great heart and once they know you better, they would be your friends forever. All you have to do is to be the first one to extend your hand and enjoy a lifetime of hand shake!
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May 25, 2009 05:29pm
I totally agree, and had something similar happen to me:
I was interning at a "Big 4" accounting firm in Birmingham, UK. I had a really good rapport going with the employees there, and would discuss issues ranging from news, gossip, sports and what not. After 3 weeks into my internship, one of the guys asks me about where I am from.
I said "Pakistan."
Slightly agitated, he says, "No, I mean where in the UK are you from?"
I said, "I am from Pakistan and have lived there for the past 18 years of my life, and just came to the UK to pursue university education."
He is dumbfounded, and cannot believe what I just said. After a minute of staring at me he proceeds to ask me "Do they teach English in Pakistan?"
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May 25, 2009 05:52pm
I soooooooo agree and idnetify with Nosheen here. I am a pakistani living in Chicago and every day I meet people who are surprised at how good my English is and they wonder how I learned it in Pakistan. They constantly have quaetions like whether women can drive cars there and if we eat and dress like other human beings on planet earth-after all we are Pakistani. It is sursprising and disturbing how people can stereotype others when they have so little information themselves.
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May 25, 2009 06:07pm
What's the point? That an isolated liberal, educated Pakistani represents the whole populace?
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May 25, 2009 06:12pm
Ha! This made me smile. As a Pakistani who first came to the US 11 years ago to attend university and spoke English with an American accent even back then, the US portion of your posting rings very true for me. "Whoa! How come your English is so good" was the first question an old farming couple from North Dakota asked me on my flight from Amsterdam to Minneapolis back in 1998.
Everyone here ALWAYS assumes I was born and raised here until I tell them otherwise. Their jaws drop, and the first words immediately out of their mouths are, "But you don't have a Pakistani accent...". So predictable is this, that once I tried to moonlight as an Urdu translator for a major satellite entertainment provider here who wanted to market to Pakistani Americans through Urdu mailings. Their American advertising agency flatly refused to believe that I could speak, read, and write Urdu as a "native" Pakistani, based solely on my English prowess. I eventually got the job but the process to convince them was hilarious.
Albeit fraught with problems, our Pakistani education system makes me proud. I went to a simple public school there, not one of the fancy private ones that were (and still are) so en vogue. Yet during my very first month here in the States, I was hired as a writing tutor by the university I attended. Teaching English to its native speakers, to me, is the biggest compliment I can give to the schools and society that taught me that very language.
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May 25, 2009 06:47pm
Its up to us, the citizens of Pakistan to educate the world who we are are and what we are capable of!
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May 25, 2009 07:03pm
Well I lived most of my life in Islamabad but then I moved to Canada in around '99. Lived here for a few years then went back to Pakistan in '03 after I got married. Anyways to cut the long story short. I must say that people in the West have a big misconception about Pakistan. Me and my wife lived in Islamabad between '03 and '09, and I must say we had the best time of our life. We had lots of 'mutual' friends who were both guys and girls. Never had an issue with my wife wearing jeans to almost all occasions. 'Hanging out with friends' was the favourite past time activity. Places like the Hot Spot and Civil Junction were the most common. We were also a part of the Islamabad Theatre scene which helped in growing our social circle. The thing is that for me I am back in Canada just for personal 'family' reasons. Other than that I would say life in Pakistan 'ROCKS'. I love the city of Islamabad and on my first opportunity I would move back.
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May 25, 2009 07:18pm
I can really relate to the stupid questions people start asking about our country as if we live in stone ages.
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May 25, 2009 07:23pm
What do you know, I have had similar comments in Canada. Firstly people do not believe that someone who went to grad school and then worked in Pakistan can have such perfect english speaking and writing skills.
Then they do not believe when I tell them about 6 lane roads in cities like Lahore, or better still that there are roads like the mall and jail road where you do not see any donkey carts or rickshaws now.
And ofcourse they do not believe the facts that women work in office environments as freely as men do. . . We have got some serious image building to be done
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May 25, 2009 07:39pm
Nice article ... I recently visited Houston .. I actually live in Denver with little if not more muslim/pakistani population ... I was surprised to see how many Pakistani live together here and go schooling etc.
Thanks for sharing your experiences and hope to see more.
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May 25, 2009 09:15pm
The English in this article is awful. One wishes some editorial discretion had been supplied to save Ms. Abbas from falling so spectacularly on her sword, not just in terms of basic grammar (observe the inconsistency of her tenses in the first vignette) but also in the narrow-mindedness she alternately derides and displays.
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May 25, 2009 09:20pm
nosheen
really liked your comments. the fun part is when some people in US ask you 'where did you learn english'? :)
anyways i find people here quite tolerant of other cultures.
Grad student
U of I-Urbana champaign, IL
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May 25, 2009 09:24pm
I was visiting a friend in Chicago and took the time to visit the mosque. People sitting on the floor "wrapped up" and listening to a barely educated Imam. But I spent more time in the downtown area among the great buildings. I saw a disconnect between the Pakistanis sitting on the floor with no sense of wonder at why and what caused them to be displaced from their medieval world and the world of post industrial United States. Shakeel.
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May 25, 2009 09:34pm
People are stunned when they hear that I have lived most of my life in Lahore. My Canadian roommate thought that Pakistanis never keep pets and was amazed when he say a "brown" person walking his dog.
At my Welsh university, people always assumed that if I am from Pakistan then I must have attended a 'madrassa'. When I show them pictures of my school, Aitchison College, their jaws drop and they act bewildered.
Just yesterday, a guy asked me if I have ever tasted Peanut butter. You can imagine the look on his face when I asked him if he was referring to regular, organic or chunky?
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May 25, 2009 09:54pm
I am not sure where you are going with this. Are you saying that the world should have more knowledge about our cultures and lifestyles, just because you are well learned and have travelled a lot? I find that people in Pakistan on average are just as ignorant as most people are here in the west. Outside of the educated class that is strongly exposed to world affairs, most knowledge comes from what is taught in schools and learned from elders.
Since you have studied in multiple countries, you may have noticed that most countries have limited theor general knowledge type courses to a very local sphere and therefore a Pakistani will on the most part know about Paksitan and its four provinces or the countries surrounding it. Just as in North America it will be knowledge limited to this part of the world. Rest of the knowledge is gained from TV, Internet and books etc. These media are frequently biased and therefore give rise to stereotypes. Our only option is to be more open with the information we share instead of telling others that ask genine questions from their perspective that we ride camels, and live in darkness (which now days is true for the most part).
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May 25, 2009 10:16pm
I love the honesty in this article, problem lies in our brain. We clog our mind with perceptions, we think education is the only barometer to be decent.
Infact, we should be surprised upon many people in our lives yet we preconceive our perception towards people in general.
I learnt a lesson recently would like to share about a person named Lewis Hamilton, he was honored as an honorary surgeon who was uneducated in South Africa and yet he was the famous surgeon of all time in the history of medicine. He was a farmer, didnt know anything about books or medicines but he learnt by observing people and become what we could never imagine.
Thanks for sharing your experience to us.
Take care and stay best
Kind Regards
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May 25, 2009 10:31pm
Very interesting article. Thanks for writing and sharing your experience.
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May 25, 2009 10:33pm
The problem is not the people but a lack of education and interest in other cultures of the world. As there are red necks in America you will also find Pendus in Pakistan and ignorants in other parts of the world who are equally ignorant about other cultures. As the demography of countries are rapidly changing and as diversity is significantly increasing in cities, people are getting first hand knowledge and awareness of other cultures of the world as they come in direct contact with each other. As a result the misconceptions imprinted by the media in the minds of people are gradually being cleared. Hopefully, people will have better understanding of each other and at the end of the day will be able to respect each other and share a meal together without trying cut each other's throat.
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May 25, 2009 11:02pm
Nosheen, happy to learn that you have seen places and not conservative to the extent projected in media.
Pl do study well , come up in life and career to encourage and be role model to your less fortunate sisters in Pakistan , India and elsewhere in the world.
With the best wishes
Jairaj Yadav , Hyderabad, India
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May 25, 2009 11:10pm
very interesting.. I will have to agree with you on the odd standards we have around the nation but despite all there is no place like Pakistan
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May 25, 2009 11:16pm
I m in Sweden. Today a band of young people barged in while I was preparing for my Paper. They asked me alot of questions but one reply to a question was strange for them. They asked me whether I was studying here on scholarship, I said 'No'. I failed LUMS test so I came here. They got confused and shocked for a moment thinking how can he be rejected in Pakistan and get admission into such a university in Sweden.
Sweet Souls!!
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May 26, 2009 12:09am
Things have changed alot. Some are changing for betterment some not
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May 26, 2009 12:16am
It is very interesting column and its so true. I enjoyed the environment about Bedford and "gotay walay kapray". That is hilarious.
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May 26, 2009 12:19am
I am from india and I told them that I used to go to school on the back of the elephant.
They all believed it. I said that because i needed some attention.
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May 26, 2009 12:47am
somehow we all have similar experiences abroad!
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May 26, 2009 01:16am
Nosheen Abbas has done a great job of projecting a very positive & real image of Pakistan for India and the world. She's done this remarkable job while still being a high school student, albeit in Chicago! The Dawn ought to recruit her to be a junior columnist. She may not yet know that Pakistan's bravest journalist and MNA Mr Ayaz Amir holds forth from Chakwal (from opposite the Town Hall)
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May 26, 2009 01:31am
Nosheen Abbas seems to take pride in spreading the information that even uneducated people in pakistan speak english. I think it is a sad situation when people take pride in speaking english in daily life amongst themselves. To be able to speak foriegn languages is a good thing but if you watch pakistani TV stations talk shows you will notice that the host and the guests after first sence , may be, in urdu jump on to conversation either in english sentences of mixed urdu that has 80% of english words or if they spoke in urdu, then the same statement will be repeated in english as if they are not sure that their sentence urdu has conveyed what they wanted to impress upon.
A VERY SAD STATE. URDU HAS DIED IN PAKISTAN.
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May 26, 2009 01:44am
Hi...
i had heard many sterotyps 4m my firnds...but it seems u r expiriencing it regularly... i sometime laugh wat people percive abt us but more often i feel very sorow that wat we had made of our beautiful country.
I realy apriciate ur effort to try to change people's mind abt PAKISTAN and also the way u describing the events its interesting n examplary.
Regards.
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May 26, 2009 01:47am
what did she want to prove by this?
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May 26, 2009 02:03am
haha. so true! the part about camels and lanterns was hilarious.
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May 26, 2009 02:04am
Hi,i hope u r fine i have read ur article , its not only intresting but also amazing for me . you had better writing articles relating other serious issues we are facing right now . muhammad mansoor abbasi from London
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May 26, 2009 02:15am
It's typical column of a person who is alienated from the culture she claims to be her own. It's ridiculous!
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May 26, 2009 02:32am
Why does wearing a Chaddar equate with being conservative? What does being conservative really mean? Why do Muslim women wear Chaddar at all? Are they required by culture, or by religion to wear a Chaddar? Is wearing Chaddar a good thing or a bad thing?
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May 26, 2009 02:56am
Its as if i am reading my own experience which i have been living for the past 9 mo's. I do not deny the fact that Pakistan (positively or negatively, not my point) is popular enough to be given any introduction but the lifestyle here is not as popular and to people knowing Pakistan through international media people like nosheen are sun to saturn. (If saturn has no sun, i did not check with NASA).
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May 26, 2009 03:28am
I read the whole article, somehow i feel like this article does not belong to the front page of a mainstream paper, maybe in the teen section....
No disrespect Miss Abbas, i've read some of your previous work and i think you're a promising prospect for this paper but you may wanna be a little more picks about what you choose to publish if you want people to take you seriously.. this one ma'am at best is just "blah", as some of my old high school classmates in Houston would put it, The terminology may have slightly changed now since its been almost 6 years out of high school for me.
Bottom-line, dont write about something everybody already knows, there's a lot of interesting stuff out there to write about these days.
Omer Khan
Houston, TX
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May 26, 2009 04:01am
it's really makes feeling nice. i'm facing same things here hehehehe
sm times they ask silly questions
like once i was asked by my teacher in front of my class that can Muslims call the name of pig heheheeeeeeeeeheeeeee
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May 26, 2009 04:08am
these are all misconceptions about pakistan ... and pakistani people living abroad really find it hard to shrug em off ... people in pakistan are very progress oriented, liberal, talented, peaceful, fun loving and friendly ..
yea there are hardliners but then u have em in all countries in all societies though the ratios differ ... but no one can force some one to do something he doesn't want to ... all in all, people in pakistan are just like all the other human beings else where in the world and the world has got to understand this ... sooner or later ..
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May 26, 2009 04:25am
It's true, people around the world have flawed notions about Pakistan.
And it's only factions of our society that are conservative and want to impose this conservatism upon others. Others, comprising the most of our society, are simply not part of this conservatism.
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May 26, 2009 04:29am
Writer seems to be in inferiority complex.
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May 26, 2009 04:38am
It describes the perception of people, about pakistani culture, who live in and out of Pakistan. Writer has clearly shown the both sides of the picture.
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May 26, 2009 04:39am
I find some of your experience similar to mine, I am from Indian Punjab. Here, in the US, guys ask me how the heck I am so good with English, and then I tell them that I have been in touch with your national language since I first went to school.
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May 26, 2009 04:44am
A very nice article which is much closer to the reality than what the perception of the life in Pakistan in the eyes of outsider - especially when it comes to myopic western eyes.
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May 26, 2009 06:17am
:)
lovely
(I am chakwali too.. :P London didnt change much of it...)
keep writing!! Best regards.
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May 26, 2009 06:36am
The auhor I am certain does not represent the majority of Pakistan. Wearing jeans is not a sign of modernity nor of moderation. Although alot of women now wear wetern clothes in Pakistan and are "in". These westernized kids don't have a clue about who they are or who they intend to be. Blinded by the desire to be hip they do not see the world as it is but through rose colored glasses riding in air conditioned cars their parents purchase for them from their ill gotten wealth all the while looking down or completely ingmoring the suffering masses all around them. All of this because they are too busy thinking about the brand names and contemplating the trendy cafe they or private party they will attend any given night of the week.
Keep living the dream.... .But remember that you are living on borrowed time
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May 26, 2009 01:26pm
In 2003 I came to live in Pakistan for a couple of years and boy was I impressed. Even though I am of Pakistani descent, I really could not imagine that my time there would be so good. The art scene is thriving; every day new restaurants are opening; and shops-designer and traditional alike-are filled with psychedelic offereings and people,from all walks of life, buying them. And really the schools can rival the best that even the States, where I live, can offer.
Also I must say that Pakistani women carry themselves with remarkable panache. Even the people on the street- the chokidar and the 'masi'- are so full of life that it is really really encouraging.
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May 26, 2009 06:48am
Well written Nosheen!
Really enjoyed going through the piece and could totally relate to it, having changed eight schools across the world...!!
Keep up the great work :)
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May 26, 2009 06:53am
I got the same treatment as a college freshman in the US..haha They could'nt believe I could string proper sentences together in English.
Lots of people in the freshman class had no clue where I was from. I recall one of the freshmen asking me if pakistan was in Texas. :) I had similar experiences once I moved to california after college. I find most communities in the US are pretty isolated from the rest of the world.
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May 26, 2009 07:04am
I cant say I agree completely with your description of schools in the U.S, they aren't exactly as segregated as you make them seem, high schoolers tend to form cliques regardless of where they are, but they tend to mix in with all kinds of people once they get to the university level. Apart from that your experiences are your travels are pretty inspiring and your style of writing seems pretty refreshing, not as gloomy as everything else on the website.
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May 26, 2009 07:06am
well i have living in the u.s for several years and i can say with absolute confidence that its not like how the author portrays ,people are quite aware of the cultural differences and since 9/11 every one knows about pakistan .so please dont make it so sensational .
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May 26, 2009 07:12am
Great write up
i have lived in many countries / continents as part of my employment, being a sikh would have similar issues in most places as they would not have seen one so close if at they had seen. All were curious about my turban and i was anything from an arab to allahji or an Indian depending on where i was....indians also experience stereo types yes but far less than noted above...hope our politicians & people can change themselves and our part of the world so that west looks up to us than with the current stereo types as people inour part of the world are intelligent, smarter , work oriented and with rich values only if they were to be channelised towards development & growth .......
keep up your good work
cheers
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May 26, 2009 07:13am
Well, I have been to the USA and am currently studying in Canada. I do not agree one bit with any one of you. Yes, they are shocked if we do speak English because most of the immigrants (from PAKISTAN , INDIA, BANGLADESH) can hardly communicate in English. Just because a few of us who have been given good education in English medium schools know the language , doesn't mean most of Pakistan can. If anything, you guys should be concentrating on making sure everyone in Pakistan is able to speak in English, rather than lying and fooling yourselves.
Secondly, it would be as surprising for you to see a white man/woman speak Urdu, Punjabi, Sindhi , Pushto, Balochi or any other language from Pakistan.
Personally, speaking a certain language is nothing to be proud of be it Urdu, English , French etc. Its merely a way to communicate ones thoughts and ideas. I know about 10 people who are from Pakistan and can not say one sentence in English. Now if majority of the people were to be like these 10 people, guess what , we as a nation can not speak in English properly.
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May 26, 2009 07:14am
---
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May 26, 2009 07:22am
Very nice,
In Pakistan a lot of talent but only need to some real article to get interest in reading English.
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May 26, 2009 07:31am
Back in Boarding School in England, a fairly repetitive question I had to deal with:
'So where is Pakistan?'
Mind you,these smart fools were offsprings of ambassadors etc etc and in today's world would be considered 'well travelled'.
'Clearly Pakistan is not located on Planet Earth, I'm ET's relative. My planet does not offer Physics and Mathematics as a subject one can opt for so I thought coming here would do justice to my existence. Really. Where do you think Pakistan could possibly be! It's one of the most heard of -istan countries!Do the geographical math.'
-------------------------------------------
A rather amusing question that did my head in:
'You're a Pakistani Princess aren't you? I mean you must be.'
'Yes I am and I have what it takes to have you royally flushed!'
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May 26, 2009 07:31am
Hi Nausheen, let me tell you about the time I was mistaken for a Pakistani 4 times a day - yes that can happen too - and it happened when my wife & I were holidaying in Egypt - esp. as my wife often wore a salwar kameez-dupatta since we were not sure about dress codes in a "mozzie" country (an unfounded precaution it turned out since the sexy "Egytans" sometimes wore miniskirts to the hotels). Standard question was a friendly "Pakistan?" to which my standard answer became "Hindustan!" and the standard response from the Misr walas was a mishri-meethi smile and a happy "Aaah, Amitabh Bash-shan"
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May 26, 2009 07:38am
Well, the questions/queries raised with respect to people of Pakistani origin used to be different in the earlier days.I visited a friend , a Doctor, in USA, in those days and People used to ask if all Pakistani are Doctors.
So now if they ask if girls wears jeans in Pakistan, i am not surprice, because the image being projected by the Pakistani media(these are the people who feed information to the international media) is quite negative.Nobody talks about the good things in Pakiatan
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May 26, 2009 09:23am
I am from Bangalore, India. I was working in the Bay Area, California. One of my collegues thought that we still travelled on elephants in India. The same was said to my friend in the University and he replied back that we gave up travelling on elephants because of parking problems :-)
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May 26, 2009 07:54am
Excellent article...clearly depicts the situation, the wandering eyes and maybe the surprise for any one of us who travells abroad....really enjoyed reading it
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May 26, 2009 08:05am
Dear Nosheen,
Its always a treat reading your articles online as well as in 'You Think' in Dawn newspaper.
Keep up the great work!
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May 26, 2009 08:08am
Hey Nosheen Abbas!
Amazing!
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May 26, 2009 08:09am
The very name of Indian sub-continent, for the Western world, used to conjure up the images of ancient traditions, snake charmers, naked priests, sufis and elephants. Recent enormous progress made by the inhabitants of this side of globe, is slowly changing these biased impressions. Nosheen's encounters are interesting but not surprising. I wish she would have been to Saudi Arabia also and wrote some tales of that region. I read her complete odyssey and end of it also. In fact, leaving aside some exceptions in isolated areas, the rural Muslims have always been liberal, tolerant and more accommodative to their surrounding cultures and traditions. They were relaxed, generous and never xenophobic. They easily learn to adopt the dogmas to the practical needs in the harvest and simply getting along with their neighbors.
They don't wear jeans but they are modern in their outlook than their suburban counterparts. Their attitude is more advance. It is clearly distinguishable from the attitudes of their urbanite, parochial, divisive, quick-to-send-to-hell-to-anyone-who-doesn't-agree with-us Islamic preachers and followers of Ravind.
Modernity has never been anathema to Islam. Modernity doesn't mean banishment of religious values from most of the aspects of life. Islam allows freedom of opinion and expression. It doesn't prescribe the freedom that degenerates into orgies of sex, violence and desperate loneliness. To Islam modernity means new and better technology and improved standard of living based on reason and discipline.
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May 26, 2009 08:12am
That is the exact same reasction I recieved when I moved to States when I was 9 years old. However in Canada it is interesting--since the multiculturalism is very evident hence the whites are actually scarce :P
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May 26, 2009 08:21am
Let me compare a little with India...
All major newspapers of the world feature at least one news on Pakistan everyday, and it is usually negative. And it happens when forward looking people lose critical mass, and a country gets into the hands of loud mouths, who, using whichever ideology, take control of power.
Problems that exist in Pakistan are very similar to what's happening in India. But the response is different. Case in point: Assault on women happened in Karnataka (state where Bangalore is the capital). But even with BJP, and a very orthodox minded home minister in control, the media and people pushed successfully to subdue the 'moral police'.
This blog is an example of forward looking people talking, and I can find reasons to cuddle my heart that hope is still not lost for Pakistan :). This process is NEVER fast, so hand in there!
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May 26, 2009 08:33am
Hi,
good to see a girl spreading good knowledge about her country which everyone should spread.
I still see people think india, pakistan are quite backwards but the main reason behind is the ignorance of outside world or inefficiency of our governments to make freindly mark on the globe.
the only problem i feel in pakistan today is lack of education and jobs, lack of which leads to wrong paths people like taliban took there control easily.
but things needed at pakistan end desparatly as india is ahead and not facing such problem.
being a Indian, i just want to spread one message that people of india don't take pakistan as their enemy.
But the simple message of friendship should come from pakistan to India.
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May 26, 2009 08:45am
I am a pakistani living in europe since 45 years,but i use to go GujerKhan Pakistan where my cousin sister is married and living in a joint family system. i like all that peoples,and their livings,all in modesty,with respect,and harmony though they have also business and links with england,but they always living in eatern culture. So no matter whether you are living in America or Europe, one thing is as clear as cristal that east is east and west is west, but our country is our country. salam.Ali.
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May 26, 2009 08:46am
Nice description
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May 26, 2009 08:49am
This happens time to time but we shouldn't be too defensive about it. In India/Pak we have some crazy assumptions about Westerners too - most of which are not correct.
At Toronto immigration, I was asked where in Pakistan I was from, which was silly, since the passport in his hand was an Indian one - he quickly apologized. Then went on to ask how come I speak such good English! It wasn't a time/place for witty comments like Nosheens! (It was the Immigration counter!)
I think these things are really cool, and people get to break misconceptions. Just don't blow your cool! :)
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May 26, 2009 08:50am
nice
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May 26, 2009 08:54am
Asalam
I am from Srinagar, Kashmir. I just want to ask my dear Pakistanis like Ms. Nousheen. Why are most of your educated lot obsessed with western mode of living the English language, Jeans Pant and opposing purdah. I have given a bit of thought to it and i think you people have got a defeated mentality and this will never allow you to lead us in the league of Nations. If all these things would have been must then Ancient Egyptians, Our ancestors in medieval times and Chinese now would have never achieved this sacred word De-ve-lo-pment. Why are you so overwhelmed? You as a nation are weak. Write ups like that reflect that you have not been able to develop your educational institutions in your own belittled National Language Urdu like Chinese and Russians. Believe me Indians have achieved a lot to get most of their academic books in Hindi and are developing it further. It is astonishing a person is going to learn an A level course ourside his / her country if such is a condition of Pakistan then what you have been doing all these years. How abject will the Great Poet (origin Kashmir) of Pakistan will feel when he will see that a girl from his ideal country is praising English and English Culture rather trying to get on her own foot.
Last but not least, a big number of men and women here (in Kashmir) are tired to defend your misdeed on your television sets and through these writeups before Indians. I think we have lost the Pakistan we have been dreaming of. Donot collude each and every thing with Taliban. Our forefathers dreamt of a Pakistan where they could without any pressure of other communities will practise eternal religion of Islam with all modern technological advancement.
Hope you try to get upon your foot rather than apeing English and Jeans, least we will lose hope in you believe me your deeds are making it wavering. Remember, we have got enough Jeans, English, Hindi Movies, Dramas besides all and sundry the things you Pakistanis will not dream off but we still want you, do you know why?
Hamid Nilnagi
Srinagar
haamidi2003@yahoo.co.in
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May 26, 2009 08:55am
THat was shocking.
And now it is the responsibility of people like you to reshape the image of Pakistan in the minds of forgiener.
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May 26, 2009 09:24am
I visited Lahore two years back .I thought that all ladies will be in Burka and all males will hate me for being a Indian.I was happy to note that ladies have a choise about what they want to wear in Lahore and all males were very friendly.Love to Lahore and Pakistan
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May 26, 2009 10:21am
I am a Pakistani Woman living in Europe am 26 years old architecture student.... I speak, Spanish and italian also.... BUT I WEAR SHALWAR KAMEEZ HERE......
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May 26, 2009 10:25am
I can't get it why such an article should be part of DWAN.COM...
What do you wear? Do you wear jeans? Can you speak english? Always justifiing yourself to the west?
Proper place for article is the gossip daily from Lahore not a newspaper like DAWN.
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May 26, 2009 10:38am
I moved to states in 1969,met a girl who was working with me ,she asked me if i would go for a pizza ,we were joined by 2 other couples ,sure they were surprised i spoke very fluent english ,one of them asked if i learned english here in chicago ,i said no,but i did go to a cathlocic school in pakistan.whiule i was enjoying my pizza bite she apologized and asked me a question. Do u have cars in pakistan. I just laughed.
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May 26, 2009 10:54am
What do you think that everything they think about Pakistan is wrong, I do not Agree. For Example; What about the discipline of Pakistan? Justice? Politics of violence? Gender bias?
anyone who can educate about these things?
But I must say that Pakistanis have a pluralistic society. America is another example of a mixture of different people but there we do not have such big problems.
So please be honest about this too. We also used to have a lot of 'good' and 'bad' impressions of the West. But when we come here we get to know about the truth. My Message; Honesty is the best policy. For both the West and the East.
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May 26, 2009 11:04am
"Jo dikhta hai woh bikta hai". People will assume what they see. Go figure!!
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May 26, 2009 11:05am
I agree with F shah comment, the exact same thing happend with me at my work, I think the west can only imagine Pakistan as an extension of Afghanistan.. Shame!!
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May 26, 2009 11:07am
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May 26, 2009 11:47am
I met a large number of indians, asking "how many good medical colleges are there....in Pakistan", and when i tell them that not only we have a large number of medical colleges, but also Pakistan is known as a country of Doctors & Engineers in USA, we have produced a large number of doctors who are permanent members of American Asociation for Heart & American Certified Medical board,
I think what we lack is proper media projection, if we look at our channels they are most of the time worried about 'bollywood' pathetic stories, lives of dull stars...whom nobody is interested in or the scandels of politicians.
Our younger lot i.e. students, professionals require more time on our electronic media,
plus our anchors should also come out of their shelves by discovering new topics!
At last, we should give more attention to education, but one thing to be noted; No nation has got success by putting focus on dance or music shows!
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May 26, 2009 11:53am
It does not matter what are you wearing.It depends how you are wearing.If you wear jeans,T-shirt or kamees shalwar.Your presentation is manian thing.If wear jeans ant T-shirt it should be as per you coulture,tradion and religion demand specily for muslim and pakistani.If you wear dress with proper covering that will promenant and visiable.I have seen many many pakistani female in canada and america,who were wearing Kameez Shalwar with bright colour in summer,that was looking facinating.I saw Canadian people were asking from where you bought this nics colour derss.Pleples like pakistan colourful
summer dress like Lawn and cotton in summer.
We should show our culture,tradition and relegion demand in our dressing.It not mean you become entirly diffren from the others.Somre time I wear diffrent from westren ,with little asian touch that make me promenant and unique.At any how we should show our tradition and culture in our life style.it is better for us and our comming generation.
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May 26, 2009 11:55am
Well this article seems a bit contradicting...in the first quarter she was trying to defend Pakistan as if she knows every single bit of it....in the last quarter she got surprized with actual mindset and behaviour of Chakwal people....
its always good to carry your norms and values with you no matter if your in Pakistan or USA...clothes only reflect where are you from ...its the Mind and speech that tell others what your nation and country is all about...
Focus on speech and Mind...rather than clothes...
thanks for sharing experience...!!
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May 26, 2009 12:27pm
I truly agree with the events mentioned above. Ever since I came to Sweden to pursue my University Education, I've always considered myself as the ambassador of Pakistan and I think every Pakistani should be aware of his/her responsibilities as a Pakistani citizen. I also have a basket filled with same stories where I amazed many Europeans. But then I realized two main reasons:
(i) Weaknesses of our print & electronic media:we rarely have English Channels, even the good Urdu Channels telecast is not available and where it is available the channels are most of the time projecting flaws in our system & society, news filled with griefs & problems. This issue should be addressed by our media, if it really considers itself working honestly and responsibly for the promotion & development of our country.
(ii) Migration of our unemployed illiterate citizens to foreign states (which are in majority). They work against the laws, are involved in black market or illegal practice, but this is not their fault as they haven't had a chance to seek the right way (education, respectful employment & living). This issue goes right down to our disordered micro economic system, having no welfare for poor and unprivileged ones. Something we all the Government, Public, Private/ Social communities are responsible.
We all should take this as an opportunity & as a challenge. And use every possible way to solve these problems as a student and as professionals.
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May 26, 2009 12:28pm
My experience is of a similar nature but a reversal on where i was brought up...I was born and raised in the UK and moved to Pakistan a few years back. Alot of friends were opposed to my move as they said, most people wanted to go abroad and you are going back in time.....Well all i want to say is that Islamabad Rocks...the education is miles ahead than in the UK as i can see my kids accelerating much faster than they would have in the UK. Where else would you find someone with 23 A'Levels....I have heard better English spoken in Pakistan, than in the UK. Wake up people in the west...times have moved on...
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May 26, 2009 12:42pm
Doh! Totally off the chain! No duh, but remember ... the Bates Brother's wore jeans, too. And what'd that get 'em? A two-fer? Hardly. Take another peek and get back to us.
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May 26, 2009 01:13pm
Very nice article, thoroughly enjoyed it! I totally agree with Ghalib Absar's "two reasons", I saw the same when I was doing my masters from the UK.
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May 26, 2009 03:03pm
What a good read! Although I have to agree with someone who said that clothes do not a person make. You can sport a chador if you like, or a beard( though not necessarily the long unkempt types) and still be incredibly 'liberal' in your approach to life.
As for jeans, are not we all all partial towards them? Paired with a nice kurti, they give such a classy look. So do Shalwar kameez. And many of us who have lived in Pakistan but no longer do can still recall with yearning that sacred ritual at the start of summer: the frenzied jaunts to the market in search of the latest and 'bestest' lawn prints in order to wear them before anyone else does.
Ah, Pakistan...what a beautiful place!
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May 26, 2009 03:24pm
Why this fixation with speaking English properly? Any other nation, that actually has a sense of self and pride, promotes, nurtures and develops its own national language. Whether its an Arab country, Iran, China, Europena coutries, etc. Its just Pakistan and India that are so ficated on try to show the world that they can spea English well. You guys dont have pride. Get a life and a culture. By the way, Chakwal is a city not a village. Also btw, I've grown up in the West, and most Pakistanis DO NOT speak English well. So, why not atleast learn your own language well, rather than speaking two languages poorly?
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May 26, 2009 03:32pm
dear Author
Its high time people from the subcontinent stop worrying about what westererns think about us or our culture!
We know how good our culture is, and we dont need them to pat our backs! If they dont know about our country, then they are fools who are increasingly getting sidelined in the globalized world.
The Britishers are long gone, yet we are stuck with the please-the-foreigners mind-set!
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May 26, 2009 04:09pm
Really, there are some instances where you have to wear your western attire. Like in your workplace. Well, thats the norm and I would gladly abide. But anywhere else, i wear what i like, be it kurta or jeans, no one could force me to wear anything that i dont like. So i clearly take offence when the blogger says..."the girl who I was talking to was wearing something out of an old Indian movie."...thats her prerogative and she should not be ashamed of it. Rather you should be ashamed about your ignorance.
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May 26, 2009 05:35pm
Unlike you good people I mostly see Pakistanis back biting their own country in the US. I have lived in the US for past 26 years and I see many people just talking about how bad it is in Pakistan. I always defend Pakistan because I believe it is not as bad as media (ours and foreign) projects. I was in Karachi last December and had a great time. I also own a house in Karachi and planning to move back. I just want to request to all Pakistanis to please project your country in good light and keep our problems to ourselves. Please don't bad mouth Pakistan in front of others specially Indians. They have 400 million people (More then the population of Pakistan)living on 20 Rupees a day yet they give the impression as India has just become world's lone super power. It is all about perception and they are doing a good job of creating that perception. We are just doing the opposite.
Regards,
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May 26, 2009 05:43pm
And the moral of the story is,
That you speak good English,
and you wear jeans, which apparently makes you superior to the backward salwar kameez wearing Pakistanis.
It is not terrorism that has stifled Pakistan's rise.
Pakistan has been chocked by the feudal system, which, for the last 60 years has stifled any social mobility, resulting in all talent being wasted.
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May 26, 2009 07:13pm
even those who aren
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May 26, 2009 10:09pm
Spot on Nosheen- reading this I had complete deja vu moments.... I was born in Pakistan but at the age of 2 my family moved to the Uk. I've also been asked such strange questions and thrown into some similarly awkward situations.
The bit about the Bedford desi (i'm guessing that the town may have been Luton) was totally SPOT ON!I live in Cambridge and on visiting Luton on numerous occasions, I can just imagine the sort of "gawachi gaan" you are reffering to. Their dress sense is absolutely dreadful and often laughable.
On one occassion I was asked by a Luton girl where I was born (strange question, I know). I replied with great pride Pakistan and she abruptly asserted that she was British born, as if that somehow enhanced her status. Then, she could not get over the fact that I was born in Pakistan saying with great shock " But you don't look like you were there-- you don't act like one of them".
Like how ridiculous???
Can you imagine how bewildered I was? It really infuriated me-- WHAT ARE PAKISTANI BORN PEOPLE SUPPOSED TO LOOK LIKE??? I need to know- do they have three eyes or horns sprouting from their heads???
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May 26, 2009 10:45pm
Nosheen, very nice article... I beleive almost every Pakistani living abroad has come across some similar stories. I was also asked the same question about commuting in Pakistan by an Australian girl when I was in Perth.
I totally agree with the other friends here that our schooling is far better than it is in the UK or anywhere else. Children are so alone here in the west without good friendships or family relations, as we have in Pakistan.
Pakistan Rockssss :-)
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May 26, 2009 11:57pm
Hahaha sounds familiar! Twenty years ago, in Texas, I was asked if there are houses in Pakistan--I answered no; we live on trees,and swing from tree to tree!
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May 27, 2009 02:46am
I knew that such stereotypes existed but since I had never been on the reciving end of these i just didn't pay much attention. however since i have moved to london for my undergrad i have seen this stereotype in action. People wanted to know why and how and where i learnt to speak english? or how did i go to school? or worse if i was married? It seems as the west still looks upon us as a group of farm livin' people who are stuck in the 18th century. sure the country is going through one of its worst patches it doesn't mean that we've stopped using cars and use donkey's for transport...
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May 27, 2009 03:16am
Overall I liked the tone of your post. I met number of Pakistanis who able to converse in reasonable English , but these are mostly those who attained higher education in US or in Pakistan, otherwise they face challenge speaking proper English. But thats OK , as English is not there mother language, plus most of them are better with there ascent if compared to Chinese or South Indians. Having said that , I found most Pakistani's seems overwhelmed with western culture.
Perhaps its just bunch of people I met in US ,but I just have this feeling that
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May 27, 2009 03:30am
I agree with most of what is said here. I am based in Thailand. And as we Pakistanis have a preset mind about Thailand, Thai is general think the same about us. I was fortunate to attend university here for my master in English, and for almost all of my presentation I choose Pakistan as my topic. To tell you the truth when people found about what we have on offer they could not believe. Small things like having snowfall in Pakistan was a great shock for my Thai friends. I wore jeans or suits or even shalwar kameez and was accepted everywhere. So much so my budhist neighbour bring me fruits or dates during ramadan. So it is all in you what you want people to think about you.
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May 27, 2009 07:23am
Typical view of, out of touch Pakistani elite, who show they can speak like british or americans and dress like westerners and think that thats what makes you modern. Amongst them, the criteria for intelligence is how well you can speak English, never mind the substance. and the topic of discussion amongst them is that Mullahs ruined pakistan when in all fairness it's the westernized elite of pakistan who have always had the power and made the decision that brought us where we are today.
Totally confused and lost souls (elites of Pakistan).
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May 27, 2009 07:30am
hi i am adil from pakistan peshawar . now living more then 4 year n australia .. i have few friend belong diferent country like italian ,greeks,turkish, labaness, russian, so as coampared to his culture our culture is totally differnet and i m proud of as a pakistan
regards
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May 27, 2009 07:41am
interesting read..i could relate to the article since i had some similar experiences when i visited Chicago a couple of years ago..people are the same every where aren't they..if we keep an open heart & an open mind, we can not only cherish the similarities that connect us but also the differences that can...
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May 27, 2009 07:44am
Language is a tool so learning many languages is great. English is working language of Pakistan, people learn it but it will be naive to say that everyone in Pakistan speaks English.
I think being in a foreign country you ought to learn the language of the land be it English, French or any other. You need that to go about doing your business. The key is how you keep your mother tongue alive in a foreign country?
It
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May 27, 2009 08:13am
Its nice to read your article. I am from India. But I just wonder what ever you have mentioned in your article is true!!! Coz i always thought India and Pak are almost similar education and all. I haven't met many people speaking English fluently (educated ones forget about uneducated) here in India. If its true then its really nice to hear so.
But I have many chat friends who are from Pakistan. They never told me so.
And about your dressing, you meant to say that wearing jeans is a sign of progress??? or just westernising yourself? You mean to say shelwar kameez is waste???
Your article is nice to read (in sense of humour) but I believe far away from reality!!!
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May 28, 2009 04:23pm
I am an Indian studying is US.
Imagine the shock of my classmates when I told them, I have come to study in US because I could not get admission in our IIT which is the best in the world !
There is a difference about the extent of English spoken in Pakistan and India; Here in India, almost everyone, except those in the rural areas know English. Nowadays, even people from middle class people can communicate in English.
Whereas in Pakistan, only the kids of the very wealthy families and elitist society can speak English. Of course, there might a 5 per cent exception, but I feel only the elite people of Pakistan speak English.
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May 28, 2009 04:25pm
Regarding English, I am yet to meet or hear about the Pakistani guys who like to read the works of P G Wodehouse.
He is the rage among intelligentsia here. Is he popular in Pakistan?
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May 28, 2009 05:39pm
Yeah, right - all people in Pakistan speak English!
Even 20-25 years ago, I used to see Pakistani kids come to US for undergrad! At a time when only grad-students from all other countries(including India) came over for their Master's degrees - this simply meant that while most others could not come to US for education other than on a scholarship/assistantship, somehow Pakistanis could come for their bachelor's degrees paying their way thru.
This meant one of the 2 things - either Pakistan was/is a very affluent country which it is not, or that the upper echelons or military, government and trading community were sending lots of kids for studies to US.
The Pakistanis I meet in US are typically from rich backgrounds - I would advise the author to go beyond your urban area and see the rural areas and see what the villagers speak in their beards and burqas.
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May 30, 2009 05:45am
i agree with javerias comments because first we are muslims and we should proud of being a muslim
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