KARACHI: “We have moved too far from Jinnah’s Pakistan and it means taking a big U-turn to get back to that point again. Our salvation lies in Jinnah’s Pakistan,” said former senior diplomat Zafar Hilaly in a conversation about ‘New foreign policy approaches for a new Pakistan’ with senior journalist and author Mujahid Barelvi at the Oxford Bookshop on Wednesday.

About whether Prime Minister Imran Khan can achieve that, he said that he until now has been seen as a spokesman for the opposition so he will need to change his tone in his new role.

Speaking about foreign policies of the past governments, Mr Hilaly said that family-based politics have not allowed a proper foreign policy as yet.

Former diplomat Zafar Hilaly throws light on Pakistan’s new foreign policy

“How can your foreign policy be about favouring the country where a political family found refuge? If you settle down in the United Arab Emirates, you let them make unreasonable demand, if you took refuge in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, you let them dictate their terms regarding Yemen,” he pointed out.

“The system must change. And if you don’t have change, what ‘Naya Pakistan’ are we even talking about?”

Mr Barelvi then asked Mr Hilaly whether PM Khan would be able to handle pressure from Pakistan’s neighbours Iran, Afghanistan, India, etc. Mr Hilaly shared how he himself had gone to meet the Iranian president in 1996 after being mandated by the then prime minister, the late Benazir Bhutto, to take to him the message of peace after realising that Ahmad Shah Masood in Afghanistan was receiving help from Iran.

“I said to him that you are our elder brother and elder brothers should not take advantage of their younger brothers, and he was moved. He said he was thrilled to find someone speaking straight from the heart to him. Although things didn’t go as planned then, if you don’t beat about the bush and say directly what you want to say, there is a huge scope,” said Mr Hilaly.

Dwelling more on Iran, Mr Barelvi said that when we talk of insurgency and militancy in Balochistan, we blame India but Balochistan is touching Iran.

Mr Hilaly explained that there was a sectarian divide also.

“There are the Jundallah who are fanatics and there is the open border. It is a big border and the traffic of people cannot be stopped. The Iranians also don’t blame Pakistan for the killing of Shias, but still they are befriending India. But there too, as Iran feels that the condition of Muslims anywhere is their concern, they have aired their unhappiness over how badly Muslims are being treated in Indian-occupied Kashmir,” he said.

Pakistan also shares a huge border with Afghanistan.

Mr Hilaly said that some 40,000 people cross the Durand Line every day due to which American forces in Afghanistan blame Pakistan for sending in militants to attack them, which is not true as Pakistan has also suffered greatly due to this border when Afghan people crossed over during the Russian invasion and the drugs and terrorism problems that also emerged due to this.

Then coming to another neighbour India, Mr Hilaly said that Pakistan can handle India but not when India has American support.

“India is producing more nuclear [energy] from uranium that they claim as an indigenous production, which is not true. Why is the US supplying them enriched uranium which they have banned elsewhere is anybody’s guess,” he said.

“The Indo-Soviet treaty enabled India to neutralise China as they themselves went after East Pakistan. Now what do their various pacts with America mean?”

At this Mr Barelvi wondered how the poor new Pakistani PM can break the deep-rooted ties between India and America. Mr Hilaly said that Pakistan should no longer be looking at America and expecting support from there.

“They have chosen India. Tell me, did Obama visit Pakistan? Even if Clinton did come here he didn’t have very nice things to say to us. They would have told us to get lost long ago had it not been for the IMF,” he pointed out.

“Pakistan should waste no time with India, too, with Modi, RSS, BJP, etc., busy hunting Muslims there as if it were a sport for them. India is not interested in any relations with Pakistan with or without Imran Khan with Modi around,” he said.

“Imran, too, should see the writing on the wall. Our friendship with the US is also like an unhappy marriage, which should end. Our views are different. We don’t see eye to eye on anything,” he advised.

“Our interests lie with Russia, Iran, China and Turkey, certainly not Trump’s America. Pakistan should concentrate on those countries with which they share affinity,” he said.

“PM Imran Khan should not field at silly mid-off, he should do it from long off,” he added.

Earlier, in his welcome address Arshad Saeed Husain, managing director of Oxford University Press, said that the talk was part of a series of discussions focusing on the ‘Naya Pakistan’ that everyone is so looking forward to.

Published in Dawn, September 13th, 2018