CII rules out DNA as primary evidence in rape cases
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ISLAMABAD: The Council of Islamic Ideology (CII) on Monday decreed DNA tests unacceptable as primary evidence in rape cases, but said they could be considered as supporting evidence.
Addressing a press conference, the Council’s chairman, Maulana Muhammad Khan Sherani, said that though DNA testing was a useful and modern technique for supporting evidence, it alone could not be used as primary evidence.
He added that the court of law could decide in light of the DNA test, when it was used with other evidences as a supporting material.
He said the council had also rejected the Women’s Protection Act of 2006, saying its provisions were not in line with Islamic injunctions, adding that the Hudood Ordinance dealt with all these offenses.
He said Islam sets procedures to determine crime cases of rape.
Earlier, the Council had convened to review recommendations from its members regarding DNA to be used as evidence in rape cases and possible amendments to Pakistan’s blasphemy laws.
It was earlier reported that the council was discussing a proposal to award the death sentence to people making false accusations under the blasphemy law. Allama Tahir Ashrafi was reported as saying that such an amendment would ensure “nobody dares to use religion to settle personal scores”.
However, Maulana Sherani in his press conference today said that the existing blasphemy laws should not be amended and that the Pakistan Penal Code already had sections which dealt with sentences for those who misused any law of the land. He said that the judge in such cases could resort to those relevant sections to award sentences.
Sherani also said the council had unanimously decided that no member shall comment on any decision of the council's meeting unless the matter was elaborated and explained in a press release or press briefing by the body.
Replying to a question, he stated that every institution played its own role and the Islamic Ideology Council was performing its job as guiding body and the powers to implement those recommendations did not rest with it.
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Sep 23, 2013 06:58pm
one word.. Hypocrites !
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Sep 23, 2013 06:58pm
Question is who selects the members of this CONCIL are the elected or sent by different schools of faqa?
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Sep 23, 2013 07:13pm
Keep these people out of Pakistani court system. They can practice whatever they want to but please do not interfere in justice system. These people will go back to multiple eye witnesses to procecute a rape case. I can understand why this was the system 1400 years ago but we have evolved and new technologies are available. Sadly, these folks refuse to evolve.
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Sep 23, 2013 07:20pm
Take their cell phones and land cruisers away as well if these hypocrits cant accept technology in helping the victims.
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Sep 23, 2013 07:22pm
The CII must include some advisors to explain individually the Ulamas in the council re special topics such as a DNA and what role it can play in dispensing Justice, not just is Rape cases but also in other un-Islamic acts that are not to be condoned but an exemplary punishment is required in Islam. Islam wants the appearance of Justice also and avoiding DNA precludes the appearance based on scientific evidence.
If the learned Ulamas of the CII does not favor the use of Science in handling legal matters in Islam, would they allow me to stop all western medicines that they consume as they are all derived from the same scientific knowledge. How can you be so selective in your interpretation of Quran and Sunnah; If it is good for me, it is ok but all else no we cannot accept science as it keeps changing. Yes Knowledge is a constant but our understanding of Knowledge increases and as it increases we change our paradigm, there is nothing wrong in accepting one
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Sep 23, 2013 07:27pm
You can not dilute the requirement of Islam to prove rape -- namely the testimony of four pious male Muslims. DNA is the invention of kaffirs. There should be a law requiring every woman to hire four pious muslims to follow her wherever she goes on the off chance she may be raped. This will solve the chronic unemployment in Pakistan as well as finding the four witnesses for rape.
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Sep 23, 2013 07:37pm
Welcome to the stone age.
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Sep 23, 2013 07:37pm
The CII is a disgrace to Pakistan. Why can't the legislature form laws instead?
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Sep 23, 2013 07:38pm
This is disgusting. Who the hell gave CII authority to dictate the punishments about these crimes? Pakistani Government and Judiciary must have its own writ and must be the only powers to bring the changes in the capital punishment.
Punishment based on the DNA testing was a good suggestion in order to stop this crime otherwise no rapist will get ever get any punishment. All of these CII members will be responsible for any rape due to their lack of will to stop this crime.
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Sep 23, 2013 07:41pm
The Council should have a few women or should consult a team of Women on cases involving Women's rights. Making decisions on behalf of a group that has no representation is HARAAM. These people won't understand the pain and suffering a woman goes through when she's raped.
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Sep 23, 2013 07:42pm
So this is why we Muslims will nev progress!
There is no law in pakistan.
The strongest financially always wins. Who are the CII trying to kid? But in a nation where the blind lead the deaf and dumb I am not surprised.
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Sep 23, 2013 08:02pm
And the scientist had us believed that all Neandrathols had died long ago.
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Sep 23, 2013 08:15pm
The clapped out Mullahs of CII should be sacked without pension. They are a waste of taxpayers money.
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Sep 23, 2013 08:16pm
outlaw this cult known as CII.
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Sep 23, 2013 08:18pm
Another reminder that the Muslim religion is 600 years behind the rest of the Word. Perhaps it's time to expand your reading list to some basic science?
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Sep 23, 2013 08:31pm
All such laws should be dropped. These laws have no meaning in the Global world. DNA is solid evidence and should consider as prime evidence. In a society where people scare to become a witness or say the truth there should not be any requirement for the witness.
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Sep 23, 2013 09:01pm
Who created this council and appointed these individuals. How can a group of people that never agreed on moon sighting provide guidance to a nation on justice.
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Sep 23, 2013 09:03pm
So the "advisory board" has made its recommendations: now the Parliamentarians need to do their job and take in ALL the information into consideration. Doing so should reveal one and only one conclusion: "*Thank you for your recommendations CII, at this point we the Parliamentarians do not find your views viable for the Pakistani people or in accordance with the law of providing equal rights to every citizen.*"
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Sep 23, 2013 09:05pm
Grow up guys! Be progressive and don't get stuck with old philosophies. DNA science is not in conflict with religion. Don't confuse the issues here. I think we need to get educated people on the council
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Sep 23, 2013 09:15pm
Shameful and outdated. What! No female members in CII??
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Sep 23, 2013 09:14pm
Islamic rules in defiance of Humanity. Islam does not recognize the value of Woman.
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Sep 23, 2013 09:20pm
Ask Maulana Sherani when the false witness can be tried under other state laws why not blesphemy.More over if Allah has written about Hudood ordinance he should let us know what islam says about false witness
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Sep 23, 2013 09:22pm
Pakistan is very lucky to have such progressive thinking people. Allah must have sent them to Pakistan specially.
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Sep 23, 2013 09:23pm
So now these fundamentalist parties will decide the fate of the rape victims ? Does this council know what is DNA and what is it's importance to a human-being ? If this is the ideology of Islam , then it should be shunned by followers .
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Sep 23, 2013 09:34pm
This is unfortunate! They should have opted or suggested a better solution then the current one. Secondly, file photo is showing late Dr. Israr Ahmed in this and obviously he has not attended this meeting.
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Sep 23, 2013 09:33pm
Proponents of DNA tests seem to have a magical belief in technology as the solution to every problem. If DNA tests are instituted, who is going to verify that the samples match or not? A police laboratory? So essentially we let the corrupt and inept police decide people's guilt or innocence. Also how can we be certain that a particular semen sample has been taken from the rape victim's body? Perhaps it was squeezed out of the suspect while he was in police custody. Can we put it past our police to do something like that?
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Sep 23, 2013 09:39pm
Amazing backward mulla rise again. Sad and we give them press coverage.
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Sep 23, 2013 09:46pm
What else does this show but the CII is a waste of space? I hope this is not a state funded body. If so the government should withdraw funding, I'm sure it can be better spent on a more worthwhile cause, instead of yet another bunch if clueless Maulvis.
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Sep 23, 2013 09:50pm
these guys are not interested in crime free country.rather they want to hold on to their posts.Pathetic.
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Sep 23, 2013 09:47pm
These so called Mullas should be packed and thrown in the Arabian sea.
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Sep 23, 2013 10:00pm
Bunch of illiterate thugs, so called mullahs hijacking the nation. Why would they support DNA when majority of them are involved in adultery and sodomy, obviously they do not want to be caught by this method.
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Sep 23, 2013 10:01pm
Wow these illiterates will decide whether modern techniques can be used or not. This happens only in Pakistan.
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Sep 23, 2013 10:00pm
I presume, elected members of Pakistani Parlament have the duty to pass laws and not a Council of Islamic Ideology (CII). From where they got the right to reject ordinances passed by an representive Parlament. It is no wonder that no one takes us seriously in this big world. And what should happen before we understand the importance of women rights! How long should Pakistan walk and stumble on one leg ignoring the (better) half of its population?
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Sep 23, 2013 10:01pm
it is nearly impossible to bring forward four witnesses who saw the act of rape and all those maulanas know it. Are they trying to cover themselves ? This is the only logical conclusion but time has come to expose these monsters.
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Sep 23, 2013 10:08pm
These Mulana's will put us back in 10AD. I don't understand that when it comes to Cell Phones and travelling by Planes to reach to other side of the world, they all use it. When it comes to proving a crime Mulana's are not thinking straight. They all need to update themselves instead thinking about something else. We need to safe guard people of pakistan and specially Women who are either RAPED or ABUSED. Did they ever thought about that??? May be not, Ya if it is their own Wife, Daughter or Sister I GUESS
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Sep 23, 2013 10:06pm
Ofoo how I hate these mullahs. Wats the problem with dna. How can a girl of five years produce 4 male muslim witness. At least this time give that poor girl a chance.
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Sep 23, 2013 10:09pm
DNA testing is the final proof of the culprit when evidence cannot be proven without reasonable doubt,.in other words it becomes the primary evidence
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Sep 23, 2013 10:22pm
Illiterate Mullahs. Disband this CII. I hope someday their daughters and sisters suffer the same way some unfortunate women do in Pakistan. It is a shame that we allow such dumb people to lead us.
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Sep 23, 2013 10:29pm
Stale heads these people have...laws need to be ammended as times demand them...we are using Islam to hide our flaws..whats wrong with DNA use as primary evidence? why the hell no death penalty for a liar of such extent?? these are the responsible for deaths of 100's of innocents and acquittal of 1000's of rapists!
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Sep 23, 2013 10:30pm
how people living in 1st century can decide about DNA evidence.
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Sep 23, 2013 10:41pm
Ah!
The World is saved in the nick of time.
I hope the 5 year old rape victim can produce the mandatory four eyewitnesses.
Hats off to you guys.
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Sep 23, 2013 10:55pm
shameful behaviour. down with this CII. this is a medieval thinking. completely against judicial standards
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Sep 23, 2013 11:06pm
This is ridiculous.
These molvis will never understand scientific evidence. Shame on them.
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Sep 23, 2013 11:33pm
The decision of the CII proves beyond doubt four things:
1. This is not the Pakistan that the founder Jinnah envisaged.
2. That even in an educated country like Pakistan, Science has no place in punishing criminals and that Islam dominates the body politic of Pakistan.
3. Pakistani political parties and their leaders cannot continue fooling Pakistanis and the rest of the world that they are a modern nation.
4. That the partition of India on religious basis was an Himalayan blunder and that Pakista is a failed state and deserves to vanish into thin air.
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Sep 23, 2013 11:51pm
I assume that the primary evidence would be 'the burden of conviction is on the victim - if she fails to bring four male witnesses actually watching the rape (how can she make the rapists themselves be witness?) then she might be stoned to death'.
If the primary evidence is not there, the secondary evidence would not be of much value. Can somebody explain any sense in this law. I just want to understand. Looking at the picture of those nine people (most of them probably hardly awake) deciding issues of such great importance for our society and country - God Help us.
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Sep 24, 2013 12:03am
CII needs to be dissolved and all these Mullahs sent home effective immediately. They have extremely narrow vision and their theories, and comments don't make any logical sense. This council has outlived its usefulness. There are bunch of literates and illiterates who might and might not have gone to schools they are close minded folks who get to decide whether someone got raped or not. Atta Turk was absolutely right have them drowned in a boat.
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Sep 24, 2013 12:00am
Who select these ignorant people to be scholars.? Come on let's move to 20th century.
If a women is raped, where does she gets 4 witness. DNA is a fool proof system. If we had a
DNA bank of all rapist and killers, we will catch them quickly.
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Sep 24, 2013 12:11am
Its very disheartening to see that Pakistan is going backwards rather forward. I wish CII should have held a public hearing and a guidance from expert doctors on this matter. Most of the Muslim countries treat their women's as a third class citizens and we are no different. I urge the govt of Pakistan to separate religion from state, it never works.
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Sep 24, 2013 12:25am
This ruling from CII clearly shows a lack of understanding of modern forensic methods and an absolute disregard for womens rights as is the case in other societies..Such medieval thinking is totally out of sync with the rest of the world and needs a serious reconsideration by the highest courts of law in the land.
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Sep 24, 2013 12:25am
Who are these guys? N why are they forming laws for the people?
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Sep 24, 2013 01:02am
Why not disband / outlaw the CII.
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Sep 24, 2013 01:20am
This means NO rapist will ever be punished for his crime and the door to that evil is left wide open by IIC. Why? because how will the girl procure the 4 witnesses that these Ulema will demand as the primary Islamic evidence? Such heinous crimes are carried out away from public in dark rooms in isolated places where rapists, one or more, do their crime. The Ulema have left the burden of proof on the violated girl and washed their hands of all responsibility. In such cases, DNA test is the ONLY unmitigated proof that the rape happened. I do not see why the Ulema want to make life of the victim more difficult than it already is after the rape. Please fear Allah and do the right thing.
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Sep 24, 2013 01:23am
Sorry, can someone please remind me which century we are living in.
I have been feeling dizzy since I got up this morning. Maybe I have traveled back in time.
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Sep 24, 2013 01:34am
i wonder if they would have the same views if some close to them was raped.
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Sep 24, 2013 01:49am
I guess they are right DNA evidence should not be acceptable. Victim should request rapist to allow her to arrange two witness before starting the act.
Humble request to Dawn dont hold this comment back.
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Sep 24, 2013 02:05am
As long as country is grip of illiteracy Pakistan will remain in grip of mullahs. To change the fate of Pakistan we need to get rid of Mullah's role in public life.
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Sep 24, 2013 02:29am
CII is still living in a stone age. It shows the parochial thinking of the so called 'ulemas'.
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Sep 24, 2013 02:43am
Woman protection law, minority protection law and anyone with voice protection law. None of them are in line with Islamic injunctions. Totally agree with Islamic council, because they are well informed ,have more knowledge because they contribute more time of there life to religion. And No matter what ,they are sincere to religion. Now it is upto people of Pakistan.
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Sep 24, 2013 02:57am
So women gets raped, she needs to find someone who can say he/she see the act? Come on mullahs got real and educated. DNA test gives conclusive evidence and give more powers to women.. but wait we don't want women to have more powers right? Coz it is simply against Islam... and women can be raped in this society and rapist can walk free because he can use your hypocrisy.... shame on You! You simply don't represent this society. Also shame on govt who will just listen to you knowing what you saying is wrong
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Sep 24, 2013 02:59am
Is this a joke? The CII is seriously a useless group of mullahs who should have no say in policy making or law making. It is a remnant of ZiaulHaq and should be thrown away just like their ringleader was. These guys bring shame to Islam by these ridiculous statements and edicts. We consider rape a joke in Pakistan, and need to wake up and use DNA as well as change the hudood ordinance. Secondly the blasphemy laws need to be overhauled so that the persecution of minorities is stopped.
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Sep 24, 2013 03:12am
How can you teach a bunch of cavemen with undeveloped brains? These mullahs are not only disgrace to Islam but entire humanity. Shame on them and their followers.
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Sep 24, 2013 04:49am
and how many of these mullahs actually know what the heck DNA really is? they simply interpreted as DNA - Do Not Apply!
First some qualified doctors and scientists need to educate them about DNA! and tell them its designed by Allah for every thing! They might understand its significance!
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Sep 24, 2013 04:50am
I am shocked to hear that in this modern age our so called Ulema are still not able to take advantage of modern technology. Why on earth DNA is not primary. Can they tell me that in the case of the 5 year old baby girl who was gang raped, how can she ever prove them guilty if DNA cannot be accepted as primary evidence. Also what makes them think that DNA found in the body of a woman is something she put there herself. Sir please open your mind and accept the benefits of technology that Allah has offered man kind. I wish that 5 year old was your own daughter.
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Sep 24, 2013 05:30am
I wonder how these mullah's would respond if all their daughters were raped and DNA was the only source of evidence. Then I would like them to sit down together and decide again.
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Sep 24, 2013 06:56am
We should make Sharia the basis of our judicial system.
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Sep 24, 2013 07:12am
These geniuses are trying their best to keep this unfortunate country in the dark ages. Time will render their harebrained ideas irrelevant but I do feel sad about the harm they will cause in the meanwhile.
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Sep 24, 2013 07:13am
I think its about time we get our selves rid of these Mullahs with no sense of what Islam is all about........
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Sep 24, 2013 07:57am
Bernard Shaw asks Michael Dukakis a provocative question in the second 1988 presidential debate: "If Kitty Dukakis were raped and murdered, would he still oppose capital punishment?
I want to ask these Ulema a similar question. They walk in the home and their daughter is being raped. They catch the culprits but they do not have 4 witnesses. Would they let the man go free after what they saw or would they rely on DNA evidence to convict him.
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Sep 24, 2013 08:39am
This is sad. And this is why religion and state should be mutually exclusive entities. It is simply common sense to utilize the latest forensic techniques including DNA sampling to find the guilty in rape cases, do they want the culprit to walk free? and do they want to catch the guilty or some unlucky innocent?
We have seen recently that people have been abusing the Blasphemy Law to exact revenge on the innocent, and for other evil objectives. The truly guilty are a minority. Therefore, it is under the parameters of common sense to have death penalty awarded to the person wrongly accusing the innocent, so that people will be careful in the future to only accuse when there's undeniable proof of blasphemy.
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Sep 24, 2013 09:17am
Lawmaking and ruling a state is no easy or trivial matter but these mullahs think just because they have beards and turbans and "Islamic" label, everything will work great. Result is very poor laws, courts and government bodies formed in the name of Islam which have done nothing but harm the public.
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Sep 24, 2013 09:25am
So basically this council has proven again that they have a very miopic and self created view of Islam and they want to enforce it to the people, definitely against their will.
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Sep 24, 2013 09:31am
Till such time our so called religious leaders accept the fact that science and religion cannot be kept apart, we as a nation and as an umma can never understand the true teaching of our great religion Islam. Until we keep on rejecting the facts proven and accepted globally by medical science we will never be able to punish the culprits of a heinous crime like rape. I am sure CII doesn't even understand what DNA is. They are still living in the Stone Age. Better check their academic credentials too, who knows they might be following the foot steps of our glorious politicians. Wake up, before its too late.
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Sep 24, 2013 09:42am
Maybe when their daughters will get raped then they will surely use DNA for identification.
They are just scared of the mobs that will gather outside their homes if they changed the current blasphemy laws, its simple as that. No one is truly dedicated here. They al are offenders in one way or the other.
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Sep 24, 2013 09:56am
What a pity, we still looking for guidance from people who think, behave and live like stone age people.
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Sep 24, 2013 10:35am
With due respect, I am unable to understand the logic behind not sentencing to death, the people who misuse the blasphemy law against innocent people. These so called Ulema will lead us to disaster, mark my words. The law in itself is quite controversial and then these kind of gestures will encourage wrong doers to misuse the law against innocent people.
If we leave our fates in the hand of such people, then I must say Pakistan ka sirf "Allah hi Hafiz hey".
Regards,
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Sep 24, 2013 10:41am
You ask why Muslims lag behind in modern education, newer technologies and scientific research? Many Muslim countries are in chaos because of these Mullahs who just cant see the big picture and are unwilling to adjust to any scientific reasoning. They have played an important role in keeping the Muslim masses backward far too long, it is about time we start to look at newer technologies as our friend rather than as our adversary.
Mansoor Khan
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Sep 24, 2013 11:05am
Pathetic, shameful. What else is there to say about this despicable ignorance. Shame on us,
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Sep 24, 2013 11:32am
If Prophet Muhammed s.w.s was alive today, i am sure he would have accepted the DNA evidence and biological methods to identify rape.
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Sep 24, 2013 12:19pm
and then we complain about the plight of muslims all over the world.
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Sep 24, 2013 07:47pm
What a sham... totally shameful.
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Sep 24, 2013 09:54pm
The real problem here is that traditional Scholarly organisations don't/wont use modern language - and the media is happy to let them look silly. This body has stated that DNA can be used to convict. That is the main point. The country's mainstream judiciary will be hearing the cases. Of course DNA evidence will be very weighty regardless of its technical category of primary or secondary evidence.
I once attended a trial in the UK where an accused person's DNA was found on the victim of a very serious assault. The accused produced an alibi witness. The Judge directed the jury in this way: if you believe the alibi witness is telling the truth, you must disregard the DNA evidence. The accused was found not guilty.
DNA evidence is very important and this ruling by the IIC is surely a step in the right direction.
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Sep 24, 2013 09:56pm
@Mohammad Kaiser Sayeed:
No it is not the final proof - you misunderstand the nature of DNA evidence. It is important evidence but it is not proof. Even here in the UK it is not treated as proof. It is important evidence that has to be treated carefully.
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Sep 26, 2013 06:59am
@Saqib:
The article is about admissibility of DNA as evidence and not about blasphemy.
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